System Mechanic: Interrupts and Interrupting

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
Zxehenia
Zxehenia's picture.
MediatorSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
42 min 39 sec ago
System Mechanic: Interrupts and Interrupting

One of the great things about some of the big end of year tournaments we have in our settings is that it gives is a really good look at how our system mechanics are working out, and even more so it helps bring to light any potential gaps or tweaks we may need to address.

As the title of the post would indicate, this chat is going to be about firmly establishing interrupts and interrupting in the game.

For the most part it was just kind of there, but it wasn't being handled any specific way, or was regulated to a kind of flavor in the ruling, unless a character specifically had it in their skill they could disrupt an action. But often that was only applied to magical actions via a meta magic type skill.

With the introduction of the aspects to help clearly compact and indicate the end intent of skill actions, skills with weaken kind of became a way to have an actual way to interrupt.
weaken abilities can reduce the PP of an attempted action, and if enough was generated on the weaken action to overcome the PP of the action being disrupted it would be considered interrupted.

However this still left a 'true' interrupt out of the system.

In order to address this and bring this into play we will be looking at adding in the following:

  • Putting an Interrupt action as part of the defense aspect (This will give that aspect: Block, Dodge, Interrupt, Parry/Counter (specialized), Redirect (specialized))
      ** Remember only physical skills can parry or redirect physical actions, and magical skills can only parry or redirect magical actions
  • An Interrupt will be considered universal, just like block and dodge, giving 3 options of universal defense
      ** This means a physical skill can interrupt mundane or magical, same with a magical skill
  • Interrupting can be applied to any action

  • Interrupting will be an all or nothing action - meaning in order to successfully interrupt you have to generate equal or more pp then the action you are interrupting
      **Due to the fact this can be applied to -any- action, a bit of risk- reward here
      ** Also we do not want to duplicate what is going on with the weaken abilities that focus more on draining as oppose to flat out interrupt
      **Also different enough from crowd control type actions, which may take a target out briefly but may not stop the action they were doing
  • An Interrupt only prevents the target action from going off if successful, nothing else

  • Stats to roll:
      Physical - Str and Dex
      Magical/Psi - Int and Spir
Bastlynn
Bastlynn's picture.
MediatorNewbie HelperSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhost
Last online
1 month 1 week ago
I'm really liking this idea -

I'm really liking this idea - we've sort of improvised it before, but making it explicit is good.

It will call for some tweaking on the dice ruler, but that's been on the to do list since we adjusted magic rules. So that's good to work with. :)

Madius
Madius's picture.
MediatorNewbie HelperSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
4 weeks 1 hour ago
Interrupting and Parrying

I do really like this idea, it gives weaken a specific niche to counter the fact that it has to be taken as a separate aspect.

My one question is how does parrying/countering fit in? If interrupts are global, and parry/counter is similarly all-or-nothing, then it seems redundant with interrupting (which is honestly fine, we could just drop parry/counter altogether and leave redirect as the standalone).

If parrying is allowed to partially work, how does it stand out against weaken aspects, or is it essentially a realm-limited weaken (physical parry can only weaken physical blows, for instance)? Is it worth having that nuanced middle piece, or might it be worth scrapping it to avoid confusion with three very numerically similar defenses?

Zxehenia
Zxehenia's picture.
MediatorSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
42 min 39 sec ago
Parry is not all or nothing,

Parry is not all or nothing, it reduces the amount of incoming PP of the attack, similar to block

Parry/Counter can only be applied to incoming attacks

Parry/Counter is specialized
Which means only physical parry/counter can be used against a physical attack using Dex and End
Of which only magical parry/counter can be used against a magical attack using Int and Cha

(blocking meanwhile uses Str and End, or Spir and Cha)

Parry/Counter can't use shields (only blocking gets to use shields)

The stats they use are different from block, in order to spread out the stat combo to ensure that some builds still have some form of defense, even if situational
(Think of the case of like a fencing dual, there are no blocks, and the defense is reliant on parries and counters, and dodges)

Redirect is all or nothing because it is about reflecting the damage back.

There is also disarming, which is also all or nothing, but is about removing a weapon from play

The weaken aspect is about debuffing, and that becomes used in many ways.
Often in that form it comes in a pp/7 negative modifier to the PP of an action, which lasts a duration (see buffing and debuffing rules)
none of the things in the defense aspect can do that.
Weaken will prolly still kind of cross with some of the function of the defense in terms of pp reduction, however the defense aspect is about attacks (interrupting is the one that goes beyond attacks and is the only one to do so really). However it still isn't a wholly bad thing as we will likely have some players come up with concepts that would like to use a more niched weaken then a general defense aspect. So having options is good imo

Really the one interrupting is the closest to is redirect and disarm, which are all - all or nothing kind of deals, but each are to achieve a very specific goal which have rather big impacts.

In short, parry is about having an alternative to block for cases of concepts where the player for whatever reason doesn't want to use block or has stats which they are better off using parry/counter with.
The specialized part which may be something that could be changed in the future as we get a better idea on how all these defense changes are playing out.

Madius
Madius's picture.
MediatorNewbie HelperSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
4 weeks 1 hour ago
Partial vs. All-or-nothing using same diff/PP ratio

Okay, so I did understand parry vs. redirect correctly, yay! I was worried for a second :)

Let me see if I understand interrupt vs. parry also:
- interrupt and parry use the same stats
- interrupt and parry are opposed by the same stats (?)
- interrupt can be used against any type of attack (physical or magic), parry can only be used against the same type of attack
- interrupt is all-or-nothing, parry reduces attacker PP even if it's only partially successful

If I have all that correct, the only time it seems to make sense to interrupt versus parrying is if I don't have a skill with a defense aspect that matches the type of attack coming at me - if I'm a kickboxer and a fireball is coming at me, so I can't parry.

Otherwise, mathematically, any time I could match PP for an interrupt to be successful, I could also match PP for a "perfect" parry for the same end, and I get partial credit on the parry if I fall short.

It makes interrupt and parry distinct actions, but only barely. I wanted to make sure that was the intent and that I wasn't misunderstanding part of the suggestion.

Zxehenia
Zxehenia's picture.
MediatorSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
42 min 39 sec ago
.

There has been a lot of shuffling so understandable

interrupt and parry use the same stats
Incorrect, they do not use the same stats:

    Interrupt will be using Str and Dex, or Int and Spir, just like redirect and disarm

    Parry uses Dex and End or Int and Cha

interrupt and parry are opposed by the same stats
Pretty much, as it follows the basic combat mapping, but for reference

    For Parry:
    Dex/Int vs Dex/Int (these are the 'to hit' stats in combat)
    End/Cha vs Str/Spir ( 'resistance' stats vs 'power' stats)

    For Interrupts:
    Dex/Int vs Dex/Int (these are the 'to hit' stats in combat)
    Str/Spir vs Str/Spir (the 'power' stats)

interrupt can be used against any type of attack (physical or magic), parry can only be used against the same type of attack
Correct, though this can change in the future.

interrupt is all-or-nothing, parry reduces attacker PP even if it's only partially successful
Correct

There is one thing you forgot, we are considering letting the interrupt be applied to -any- action, not just attacks. Hence why it may toe the line more with weaken, but also may be able to expand the function of combat monger type characters as well. Interrupt will be the only part of the defense aspect to be able to do so.

At this point as well, possible considering dropping the 'specialized' for parry and redirect, and make them all universal.
Just letting parry function as a speed based alternative for blocking in general, which probably make more sense and prolly easier to track.

Then Redirect, Disarm, and Interrupt are all 'speciality' moves for the defense aspect, as they are all the - must match PP or greater to succeed.
Though still Interrupting will be usable against non attack actions.

Madius
Madius's picture.
MediatorNewbie HelperSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
4 weeks 1 hour ago
Parry parity

Ah! I did totally miss that, I think it being part of the defense aspect made me think it would be exclusively applied to attacks in combat, but if it can interrupt things like bolster/weaken efforts (which can't be parried or blocked), then that gives it a very important place. Thank you! Sorry to be so confused ^^;

Having Parry be realm-limited versus not is still a tricky one. On the one hand, I like the idea of all three standard defenses (block, dodge, parry) being treated equally but with different stat pairs so that any build has at least one favored defense, numerically. At the same time, parry is the only defense that uses purely attacking stats, so having it be limited to encourage people to raise END for defense also makes a lot of sense to me. Honestly I think I'd be content either way there :)

But more importantly, I now grok Interrupt and where it fits into all this. I do like having a category of specialty moves, since we already kind of did with Redirect and Disarm, and we could add things like Grapple/Pin to that in the future if appropriate

Thanks again for explaining!

Zxehenia
Zxehenia's picture.
MediatorSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
Last online
42 min 39 sec ago
.

All good! Its why we have these lovely forums :)


Parry doesn't use both 'attack' stats, so there is already that spread of different stats

for physical: Dex and End
for magical: Int and Cha

it still uses a defensive stat in there, so there is still the encouragement to raise defensive stats, regardless if it is selective or not.

I mostly wanted to try a couple of moves as being selective, to try and see if maybe we gave too much stuff to the defense thing. however with the questions and seeing some of the things played out. It looks like we can remove such restrictions and it won't be overpowering, and kind of expand defense options. Plus should streamline the ruling all the more (as part of the tournament test, it did seem to take people a bit, so the more we can make easy the better)

Even more so as there seems to be an agreement in keeping the 'specialty' moves of redirect, disarm and interrupt as the all or nothing and so they would be like way more situational even without any restrictions due to the risk of not having a partial success to fall back on. But they do fill gaps in play that would come up, or be useful.

And yeah in the future we can look at this kind of building to see if we are missing something if we need to make something new, or add in a 'specialty' in another thing we already have.

So yeah I think, I would like to have it tested out to have -no- restrictions on any of the defenses, and get some feedback on that.

For review:

Standard Defenses

    Blocking - only move that can use shields
      Physical version: Str and End
      Magical/psi version: Spir and Cha

    Parry

      Physical version: Dex and End
      Magical/psi version: Int and Cha

    Dodge

      Dex and Int

Specialty - Must match or exceed PP in order to succeed

    Interrupt any action (attack and non attack)
    Redirect/Reflect an incoming attack
    Disarm to remove a weapon from consideration
      Physical version: Str and Dex
      Magical/psi version: Int and Spir

Yay for hashing things out XD

We will get this all sorted out one way or another ;)