Grievance Posting Mon, 08/04/2014 - 10:37pm

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Grievance Posting Mon, 08/04/2014 - 10:37pm

This is a grievance posting submitted on Mon, 08/04/2014 - 10:37pm through the Anonymous Mailer.

According to the rules of the Site Grievance ( http://vaxia.org/proposals/site-governance ) this posting must be handled publicly.

The following information was provided on the mailer:

Recently, a player had quite a lot to say about a recent mediation, in particular about the mediator. Let's take a look:

"[. . .] instantly of a view during mediation to say everything is my fault right off the bat?"
(http://vaxia.org/comment/110878#comment-110878)

"[. . .] she pointed out it was my fault and accused me of being combattive when I wasnt."
(http://vaxia.org/comment/110883#comment-110883)

"I wasnt being at all combative - [the mediator] is always accusing me of being wrong and combattive and being the cause with every issue.

I answered [the other party in the mediation's] questions on the mediation honestly, neutrally, and with an open mind and [the mediator] accused me of the exact opposite[. . .]

[. . .]the mediator in question shows no capacity for neutrality in the mediation. One post into the mediation and she is instantly all "its all your fault and you are being aggressive.

Just like my problem with [another player] the other day - I asked [the mediator] about it and her answer was "Its all your fault, you said this." when my post was 'sends his characters to help Zxe with her work' not 'the eval department are lazy assholes who never do shit' - which is what I was told the eval department were saying I said."
(http://vaxia.org/comment/110891#comment-110891)

So! There are of course verifiable logs for this sort of thing. It seems to this anonymous mailer that (most likely) either:

a) The mediator has done an extraordinarily poor job and some sort of action needs to be taken.

or. . .

b) the player making the complaints has a warped sense of reality or has perhaps knowingly lied about another player and some sort of action needs to be taken.

Either possibility can not stand. I call for the relevant logs to be reviewed.

The violated principles are:

- Fun
- Fairness
- Site Governance Procedure

Provided files are:

All site members are requested to provide any supplemental logs that are relevant to this conversation as quickly as possible. We are seeking to reach a resolution on this matter within two weeks.

A record of all submitted postings over two-weeks old may be seen at: http://vaxia.org/node/9368/anon-posts

awoundandscar66
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So, I'll just come out

(Me:) So, I'll just come out swinging, I suppose. I apologized. And I know there has been some thoughts of me being a "problem player" in your eyes, Sin. I just want to know, why you think that. What exactly, to each detail, did I do, to cause that sort of thought in you? Because from my perspective, I am doing literally nothing wrong. I apologized for my action because you misinterpreted what I said, and you did not even acknowledge it, to my knowledge. So tell me, what can I do to make this civil for you. Because I truthfully, don't know what I'm doing wrong, so please open my eyes to it. (this was what I said, which i could understand coming off strong, but I meant what I said.)

(Player:) 1) You were attacking (player) on Limbo for his character being the way the character is and when he started to show that he was being upset you told him you were only joking and he should relax. You were agressive with him in your tone and wording.

2) When I asked for more information about his character to clarify things that I did not understand you told me to drop it when I was only asking questions - instead of trying to be the least bit diplomatic or to see that I was only asking questions not attacking him in any way - you demanded I drop it in the same aggressive tone you used with him.

3) You asked a question on the forums - I gave my two cents - and while you responded to all of the SH's with respect and a neutral tone your tone to me was aggressive and spiteful and rather insulting. ( http://vaxia.org/comment/109943#comment-109943 this was what i stated, i will leave it to your judgement to decide if it was aggressive or not)

4) After I told where my issue came in with you - I left the forums and shortly after got off Vaxia as a whole for a bit. I came back because my phone blipped that someone messaged me but I didnt bother going back to the forums to test and see if you were continuing your insults.

5) I didnt know you had appologized at all until (mediator) told me late last night before she went to bed and at that time due to the issue with Bast that I had in Limbo I didnt even want to be on Vaxia at all. I had to ask (mediator) to talk to me on ICQ because I couldnt stand to even be on Vaxia at all last night with the eval staff thinking im a jackass for having a screenshot of my character list.

What you fail to see is that what is said in text is toneless - when you are continually aggressive with people they see that aggressive tone in much of what you write.

Also you dont seem to see that - I dont know you. Nor do I pretend to. So while everyone else on Vaxia knows you personally and has talked to you in endless measure and know your personality - I do not.

I take all new people on a neutral tone until they prove otherwise.

I have been here two weeks and been attacked by you twice in a three day period (one of which was minutes after you attacked someone else).

So it isnt so much an misinterpretation but that your wording did not support a neutral medium especially since I only know you for being aggressive OOC.

Your friends and those who know you personally wouldnt see what I see because they know you and can laugh about it.

But I respond quite differently to people who are aggressive, insulting, or demeaning to me.

I ask them to leave me alone and I walk away like I did on limbo the other day and the way I did on the forums.

As far as my opinion of you - it doesnt really matter.

I am a newbie here - a valueless name in a swarming world of bits that will be forgotten in short enough time.

You however are a veteran here and your name will always be remembered by your friends.

Opinions do change if given enough reason to.

Feelings are like a garden and with enough care whats held within can die or prosper.

The fact that you point out that you only appologized because I misinterpreted it in your view makes the appology a rather void point in my view.

Thats like saying "Im sorry you are a jackass" - note I am not saying that to you I am using it as an example.

Your appology has an inclusion which makes it hold less of a value.

You arent sorry because you hurt me, you arent sorry because I was feeling insulted and attacked, you arent sorry because you did the things you did.

You are sorry because I misinterpreted.

These are the things said player had to say. In which the mediator responded:

Listening to constructive feedback here is going to be worth a lot, (player) . After all, we're doing this mediation to discuss things with an open mind and not a combative stance. I understand you disagree with my statement. However as stated, it was only something to think about. It wasn't meant to cause you to respond to me, it was just to give you something to consider. However, to reiterate, you already explained that you'd left the thread in number four, you didn't need to explain again why you left Vaxia a second time that same day. Four explained the situation from AWAS's perspective and in regards to him completely. (Note the mediator did not state that he was being combative, just stating to be careful not to become so.)

(Said player than stated:) Im not being combative in the least.

(Mediator:) I didn't say that you were. I was merely reiterating that I had only meant it as something to think about, and not to respond to. That is all. (as was the idea)

(Than, the player responded aggressively:)

As far as you not saying I was - "After all, we're doing this mediation to discuss things with an open mind and not a combative stance" <--- infers you do in fact view me as having a combative stance. http://vaxia.org/comment/110883#comment-110883 (comment relation)

I came to request the mediation in the honest hope we can fix the problems between us and came to the PMs with an open mind and a willingness to hear things out...I dont like the idea of having enemies...

But...

1) AWAS says he only appologized because I was wrong in his view.
2) AWAS says he did nothing wrong in the first place so he doesnt see why anyone would be upset anyway.
3) (mediator) says I am being combative for explaining my view neutrally and with a smile to try to be understood - and everything according to (mediator) is my fault just like with (player).

As AWAS is frequently at (mediator's) and (mediator) admits he has slept there - this is clearly becoming a conflict of interests at this point.

I showed no judgement, no argument, no negative nature or view but answered what I was asked and I was told by AWAS that everything is my fault and he is faultless and (mediator) said I was combative by answering his questions.

AWAS spoke first and I responded in neutral terms to point out my views as requested.

As the mediator says I am combative and in the wrong as has been proven to be the norm - further mediation is pointless and nothing can be done.

I appreciate you both for your time and stating that everything is my fault and you both are faultless.

(The mediator said nothing, as you can see, said nothing to instigate such a response. The player stated he didn't want to make enemies but. Giving the implication that he had the intention of making enemies with his post. He stated that there is a though of impartiality, which is understandable, as I do know the mediator. So I respect the stepping out from (mediator), as I could see how that would be an issue.) http://vaxia.org/comment/110878#comment-110878 (comment relation)

(Player): "Because from my perspective, I am doing literally nothing wrong."

- the use of the word literally just like his frequent use of the word 'obviously' in the forum response where he attacked me make it just finger pointing on his part.

"I apologized for my action because you misinterpreted what I said, and you did not even acknowledge it, to my knowledge."

- AWAS clearly stated that he only appologized because I misinterpretted it but then followed in that I didnt acknowledge it and #5 pointed out PRECISELY why I hadnt yet acknowledged it. I had only just logged in for the first time since yesterday in full to message LadyK LITERALLY a half hour before she started this farce.

"What exactly, to each detail, did I do, to cause that sort of thought in you?"

- I answered in 4 notes about what happened. (this is how my words were taken. I did not mean for them to be taken this way. If it looks like this to the majority, I will do my best to change my wording with everyone, to ensure it no longer happens. Because if I am the source of the problem, I WILL change for Vaxia.)

(Me:) (player), you're right. I'll do my absolute best to use my words in a different way. I do not want you to think I am attacking you, because I'm not. and I apologize for speaking in such a way. I'm not sorry because you misinterpreted, I am sorry because I screwed up. I shouldn't have been so abrasive and I am sorry that I have been being a player you dislike in games such as this.

I will leave you alone for now, so I do not further cause these issues, because I want Vaxia to be fun for us both. I will do my best to watch my tone when I say things in text, because I forget it is toneless most times. I will not be so aggressive in the future and will give us time to push this into the past and hopefully reconnect at least as civil RPers. I am sorry for causing such a dilemma, and I'm sorry I had to make this a social issue, so to you (mediator), I also apologize. I do not know if you will accept this, or if you want to try to be civil again. But for now, I will leave you be, and so I can no longer cause you issues. Maybe I'll see you IC or in sessions, but I'll leave you to yourself OOC. (I began to think that it may be my fault after all, and felt horrible for this, and so this was my apology to said player)

(Player:) Thats all I asked - AWAS.

Most of it is that I dont know you in the least - I dont know your personality yet.

So when you were harrassing (player) about his character it set in my mind that that was normal for you and then you jumped on me when I asked about the character to (player) on things I was unclear on.

Then when the forums happened I knew about your abrasive approach to things and took your words for face value not in the knowledge that your friends have of you from knowing you.

Lets start with a clean slate - IC, OOC, and otherwise. (this was the acceptance of apology from said player, end mediation)

This is what I have for the situation.

Sinsational
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Here's mine:

Here are my logs - and unlike AWAS' they havent been edited to suit me in any way as he cropped out words including parts of sentences from his 'log'.

From ICQ from right after Bast stormed out of limbo

From the Mediation:

Following this and the Mediation I did go to limbo, yes, to ask if it would be possible to talk to someone else - where I was asked about the incidents by Tanya thus leading me to discuss it and I had approached Madius asking if when he had a moment I could discuss it with him.

I had asked LadyK for assistance on mediation immediately after Bast stormed out of limbo posting clearly in limbo that she was upset with me - which she had done before but was able to be handled directly in PM when I had posted in limbo that I was excited about a Madius's session that was upcoming and she posted in limbo that I should let other people have fun too so I stepped out of sessions which in my view was against Fun and Fairness and LadyK did similar when LadyK told me that if things dont already exist via wiki or otherwise in Vaxia that I shouldnt try to create it or come up with original ideas which in my view is against Fun Freedom and Fairness but was handled in private over PM. LadyK informed me on ICQ that she doubted Bast and the eval staff would want to seek mediation but she could help with AWAS - but while she asked for an open mind from me AWAS approached the situation right off the bat without one and then in my view she had come forward to accuse me of being aggressive.

LadyK told me that the eval staff were saying it was my fault that they assumed that something that never made mention of the eval staff at all was against them because they read into it on things that were never implied. Yes, I posted a screenshot on limbo (with the post 'sends his character list to help Zxe with her work' nothing about the eval staff) with red marks on PUBLISHED - because the characters hadnt been rp'd and I hadnt written as them before. It was a personal note that I needed to make sure I went through those characters description, background, personality to ADD details before I rp them. I use such notes to MYSELF to let me know that I still dont FULLY grasp a character and should do test writings such as Jacob's journal to get a feel for the character BEFORE it goes IC.

Madius during the course of my discussion with him assisted me to see the problem from a different view that I was not seeing prior to his words - and it opened my eyes to a great measure of things and lead to me accepting AWAS' appology which I had, due to Madius, accepted as an honest appology but seeing that AWAS editted his logs to suit himself I see that the appology was in fact not honest.

admin
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Administrative note on

Administrative note on grievance process: We are in information gathering mode at this time.

All logs that are relevant to this instance of mediation, including events leading up to the mediation and events following the mediation are appropriate to note at this time. Importantly - they are the only thing appropriate to note at this time - we are gathering relevant evidence for this review.

Please save comments, reactions to logs, defenses and other opinions until after all material has been gathered so that the site may have the full context for review. We are looking purely at the textual evidence at this time - context around the interaction is NOT required nor is it appropriate. There will be opportunity to provide that in the next phase.

The administrative staff will be able to confirm accuracy of presented private message logs, and multiple logs from users involved are welcome if there are any inaccuracies in presented information to guide that review.

After the information gathering phase is complete - we will then open the floor for commentary, defense, or review and begin to accept initial suggestions for a proposal for action going forward.

Sinsational
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After...

After having spoken to tanya, bob, zxe and madius - which the convo that brought the complaint lead to - I realize I was wrong and I am deeply appologetic to anyone who was upset by my actions or words - I promise to do anything possible to improve myself and try to cool my jets. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for those whom spoke to me honestly.

But I would like to, if I may, pose a question...

When bast during a convo about madius' session told me to let other people have fun - did I flip out in limbo and not try to figure it out? No, I went to bast in pm to ask if I upset her and she cleared up what she MEANT to say. When I post something and it isassumed I said something I didnt - did bast pm me to ask me about it? No she flipped out in limbo saying she apparently cant have any fun and ignored me after.

When ladyk told me straight up that things that arent preexisting cant be requested or created - did I flip shit in limbo? No, I continued to talk to her in pm about it until she explained what she ACTUALLY meant and she explained she misworded it and copy pasted so the tone was worse than intended.

When TGE insulted CH in limbo until CH asked him to quit - AWAS asked him to calm down as one of five who spoke up and AWAS chided TGE because TGE claimed he was just joking...then AWAS insults TGE until asked to stop and AWAS says he was joking but TGE got a warning.

And now I am having someone grabbing torch and pitchfork because I had a convo with zxe, tanya and bob in limbo about my problem to try to get their view at the same talking to madius in pm.

While I realize I am new and bast is a head as is ladyk - is it fair or supporting fun or freedom that I get reamed for doing something in limbo and awas and bast who both also posted hurtful or misunderstood things things in limbo get applauded? Is it any better than ladyk who I stayed in pm and gave her a chance to explain herself?

I really do not understand that but I plead at the feet of my peers for another chance versus the firing squad that the 'anon complaintant' demands.

I most heartedly appologize for the wrongs I have done and would seek to right my wrongs. I realize things I have done or said have been wrong and have hurt people that I never wanted to hurt - but I ask...dont I deserve the same respect in that if you have a problem with me that you come to pm to talk to me privately to work these things out before they explode not go to limbo posting saying you arent allowed to have fun or putting forward anonymous complaints? Can I please be permitted the same capacity to have feelings and be treated as a human - a human that makes mistakes and I am perfectly capable and willing to admit I fracked up.

Bastlynn
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While that's appreciated,

While that's appreciated, this anonymous complaint actually does need to be resolved... either the lead in question is abusing the position and unfit for it - or the accusations are baseless - or something in between.

While the original anon posting may have a personal take on things - the truth is... we've needed to do this since the mediation authority of the Social lead was rejected. This is what the next step in the resolution process is after mediation fails or whenever a lead's authority for the position is in doubt.

By calling the lead into question, the lead position's authority and the personal reputation of the current holder of that position is in doubt.

In order to be confident that the lead is the appropriate leader, we need to review the situation and re-affirm or take corrective action based on the evidence presented. This is one of the checks we as a site have on abusive leads. Stopping short of that simply leaves the entire site in limbo, uncertain if the lead is guilty or innocent. Which will impact the authority of the lead in the future whenever any of the named individuals in this come up.

It's just not a status quo that can stand when what we need is a person in that position that the site knows they can trust to fulfill the duties of the role. By raising the question, we are obliged by our own Site Governance policies to address and resolve it.

This is a matter the entire site has an absolutely vested interest in - now that it's out there - operating in private to resolve this at this point will only lead to further distrust. Transparency is one of the guiding principles of the site as well.

Tanya
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As far as the evidence goes

I'd like to see more links to all the Limbo conversations that are being talked about here. I have not seen the Limbo conversations that are being brought up. I am on at weird hours and miss quite a bit of things that go on here.

Thank you

Bastlynn
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Ok, let's see if I can

Ok, let's see if I can reconstruct the sequence of events / timeline here. I'm going to try to put these all in time-line order, cause we've got a lot of material here. And since the idea that I hate Sin has been brought up repeatedly in logs, this seems to be something that also requires verification and looking into so I'll be including that information as well. All times are in EST.


The initial misunderstanding I had with him, I'm including a little in advance just to make sure we have context:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

Starting from here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/103475#comment-103475 - where Sin topped up the site fund.

Sinsational
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 2:07am Permalink
There we go. I feel accomplished. Got the counter for vaxias up time to a full 12 months from 9. Now imma go lay down. At least 160$ towards the site I love and feel at home... picks up his stuffed panda and heads out for bed

/loads here of general good nights and some casual chatter - trimmed for brevity, but link has it if you want to view it/

Mention of prepping for Sirian character here (relevant cause it comes up in PMs later):
http://vaxia.org/comment/103551#comment-103551

Sinsational
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:26am Permalink
I hope to be there...but I have my doubts xD
Not due to lack of time but lack of serians.

/a bit of chatter and monday morning dancing here/

About two hours later, I spotted the top off in the funds here, cause I get emails for that:
http://vaxia.org/comment/103570#comment-103570

Bastlynn
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:14pm Permalink
also @sin - GD - let others get in on the action over there - i feel guilty now!

Bastlynn
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:15pm Permalink
which i am well aware is an Absolutely Silly thing to feel ;)

Sinsational
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:23pm Permalink
@ Bast laughs softly Will do!

/casual chatter continued through the day with Sin, LadyN and others/

Which was followed by bowing out of sessions about 4 hours later:

This post seems to be related? Here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/103709#comment-103709

Sinsational
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 4:27pm Permalink
goes out to take a breather - maybe he was just overthinking things

Bow out posts around 07/21/2014 - 4:36pm
http://vaxia.org/comment/103715#comment-103715
http://vaxia.org/comment/103714#comment-103714

Bastlynn
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 5:06pm Permalink
pokes Sin with a spoon to get back in dat dere pot (aka go read your PMs I think we had wires completely crossed) :)

Which was followed by tracking down in PMs to determine what happened:

First PM is at 7/21/2014 4:15:26 PM
My first reply at 7/21/2014 4:20:42 PM

Sinsational Jul 21 @ 7/21/2014 4:15:26 PM
Are you mad at me?

Bastlynn Jul 21 @7/21/2014 4:20:42 PM
Huh? I'm missing a lot of context here - I'm popping in and out of work - is something up?

Sinsational Jul 21
I was just wondering if I did something to upset you.

Bastlynn Jul 21 @ 7/21/2014 4:33:21 PM
Trust me - I'm pretty blunt if someone's upset me. :)

Text isn't one of those things where I think you can really afford to play guess-my-tone. It's just not fair and doesn't do anything useful to fix problems. It's why I sprinkle smilies in everything, to make sure the light tone is conveyed. If i'm actually upset... the cussin' to words ratio goes up - or more likely I step over to PMs to say something about the line that got crossed. :) I'm not riled up at anything at the moment. :)

Sinsational Jul 21 @ 7/21/2014 4:35:01 PM
'at the moment' xD

I just got concerned when you scolded me in limbo earlier for wanting to be in sessions.

I thought it was alright - but I was wrong.

I wont do it anymore.

Sinsational Jul 21
I posted up on madius' next two sessions withdrawing my interest.

I will stick to non-session rp.

Thank you for pointing out how selfish I was being.

Bastlynn Jul 21
huh what? Where did I - what?

I want people to get into sessions - where did I say otherwise?

Bastlynn Jul 21
OH! Okies, I think I see where the issue is: This comment - http://vaxia.org/comment/103570#comment-103570

Was about monies! As an continuation of feeling guilty for you pumping up the vaxia server account. Nothing at all to do with session stuff!

Sinsational Jul 21
I was talking about session stuff when you said it and how hard at work madius always is.

Near the tail of me saying 'If I had a Serian character I would love to join the serian session' you came forward saying 'let other people get involved!'

Which to me was saying "Dont try to be in every session."

So I stepped out despite that I noticed that some others have been in every session for the last month.

As far as the money I just wanted to help out - I put what money I could into it to get it so Vaxia is good for the next year.

Plus it helped me bring Jacob closer towards his target insofar as stats and skills and Pira will be able to have a little bonk with her staff.

There is plenty of room for others to pitch in.

Like I said before - Vaxia is like a second home to me...especially since I (usually) feel welcome...

Bastlynn Jul 21
I'm actually looking at characters right now with Zxe to sort out which we can get you ready for asap.

Sinsational Jul 21
...its okay hun...I understand that my characters are rather unusual.

Right now im trying to figure out how to delete some.

Like Celeste...and probably my serians...

Bastlynn Jul 21
I'm in and out of limbo often enough I'm not always up on the back-scroll - when in doubt, always always always feel free to ask me to confirm! I may be responding to something out of context cause I'm multitasking over here. You're not even remotely on the 'squats on all sessions' radar at this point. We honestly haven't had an issue with overfilling seats yet. So absolutely not where I was going with that. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned (and besides, it would be up to Madius to be the one calling where he's hit his limits.)

Bastlynn Jul 21
You would drop them into inactive if you were going to do that. we don't have a formal delete button since the database doesn't like it when you take away the character information for displaying.

Looking at SAMI - I've got one quesiton ont he combat skill for him. Are you aiming for melee or ranged? And if so - what sort of weapon in those areas. Hand-to-hand or knives - or pistol or rifle? If we can get that dialed in, he can always get an upgrade to pick up a second weapon type later.

The other question was just to fill in a little more of his background. As a security drone he'd probably be of northern manufacturers - Bolvanian most likely since they're the leading edge for home-grown tech, and paranoid/militaristic enough to actually build such a thing. Which means he could literally have fallen off the back of a truck somewhere or been stolen and lost. If you're ok with that to fill in the gap in your backstory there - then the only question becomes how did you get up to Station Prime? Hitch a ride in someone's luggage or deliberately went or...?

Sinsational Jul 21
Thats why I messaged you to ask if I upset you somehow...

I posted about the money before I went to bed last night so I wasnt even thinking of it this morning while talking about rp xD

How DOES one delete submitted or draft characters?

Sinsational Jul 21
As far as SAMI - the combat skill was planned to be firearm based.

He could most certainly have been constructed in the northern section - and I am certain with his curiosity he might have been following something or someone and was locked in a cargo hold when he didnt realize it.

Bastlynn Jul 21
And lacking the context on my end I had no idea what you were talking about otherwise and could only answer with "nope" ;) So I'm thinking if we stumble into that again, I'll follow up with "No. Noooo... ? Why?" And see if we can short circuit all of that. :)

I think, if you're looking at a submitted or draft character - you should be able to see the workflow tab for the characters in draft and move them to inactive from there. You may have the same option under submitted - but if you don't just ping an SH to move it to inactive for you.

Bastlynn Jul 21
Ok, firearms: pistols or rifles? There are ballistic and energy style weapons for both, and it's just an ammunition switch for the tech - you don't need a second skill for it. On the station, Commander Whit would have requested you use energy weapons to avoid hull breaches. I love the idea of how he got on the station - that works perfectly. Whit would have seen him as useful and given the go ahead for having him on her station.

Sinsational Jul 21
Okee dokey :)

Now to just figure out who to be rid of. Celeste is a definate - her bio came from the years I rp'd her on myspace.

Most of the serians if not all are certainly possible since all three are problematic in their own right.

/Next three PMs in sequence are working over the character concept to get his skills squared away before the session./


The initial incident in Limbo with AWAS, TGE, and Sin. This occurs starting on Jul 30th. (This is the one I think you missed Tanya.)

From here: http://vaxia.org/comment/108494#comment-108494 @ Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:01pm
To here: http://vaxia.org/comment/108549#comment-108549 @ Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:15pm

The hour between as follows, it ends when Zxehenia steps in as a Social department member to change the subject:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:01pm

Ralean's only gonna be able to heal himself. Anyone else can find their own healer.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:04pm

Healing's vital imo.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:10pm

Oh your character's a selfish elf with magic skills he's trying to learn? Is he going to try and date everyone too? ;)

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:12pm

Well he wasn't going to but then you had to go and say that.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:14pm

Not sure what the first half of that was meant to imply though.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:19pm

I'm making fun of him for doing Edwin things.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:22pm

Not sre how Edwin has a monopoly on learning magic. Especially when he had 1 magical skill out of the 6-7 skills he had.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:25pm

Or being an elf for that matter.

Boblet
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:30pm

Nixa, no healing. Randir, no magic. Sarav, might get a self heal. Back up mage, no healing.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:31pm

I'm just giving you shit, homie.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:32pm

Mel had healing magic, Edwin didn't have any healing magic, Ralean is self healing, Vel probably wont get any healing magic

Boblet
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:36pm

I generally don't play healers. Maybe minor support healing, but not main focus is healing.

Boblet
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:37pm

Even in D&D, my clerics rarely healed or even could heal (1st and 2nd edition)

Zxehenia
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:37pm

if you can kill them before they can hit you, who needs healin.

Ysmyrelda Xanatos (Lady.Norale)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:39pm

Zxe, you sound like some of the berserkers and warriors I had in my group.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:40pm

I say you can never be too safe.

Ysmyrelda Xanatos (Lady.Norale)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:41pm

They were all 'Hey... Norale, roll up a fighter or ranger or something, why do you keep rolling up these healers, well take the baddies down fast so we dont' need no stinking healers.' If any of them had been true neutral or even the slightest bit evil she would have just sat back and let them get the stuffing pommeled out of the. And then.. healed the other guys, cause well her team didn't need the heals, and they obvious need the extra workout.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:41pm

If you can heal yourself to keep fighting who cares if your allies get hurt.

Zxehenia
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:43pm

chuckles course that is mostly Quin's line of thinking ;)

Most of my characters tend to be support/ crowd controlling types, and can combo really well with certain others and end up doing crap that people didn't think we could do XD

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:44pm

The selfless care. But if that's not your character, that's not your character. Orival's doing it for others, but doesn't want to test it on others. Xyrix will probably get one as well. Iris won't. Amalia doesn't touch magic.

Ysmyrelda Xanatos (Lady.Norale)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:44pm

>.< but can you keep up on healing yourself if your allies fall? All those people suddenly focusing on you.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:44pm

For real though Ralean didn't have a choice but to go with a self heal.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:44pm

Though his learning to heal himself is selfless in his eyes.

/This seems to be the point where things start to get a bit tense. It is also the first point of entrance into the conversation for Sin, about 45 minutes in at Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:45pm:/

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:45pm

Oh so he's a sociopath?

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:45pm

is the only C that Sin has that is able to heal.

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:46pm

Saving yourself while you watch everyone else die is deemed 'selfless'?

/GE begins to get a little defensive and attempts to explain the reasoning./

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:46pm

What? How does that make him a sociopath? I don't know that you know what that word means.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:47pm

Making it so that healers don't have to get near him when he's bleeding everywhere is.

/AWAS continues on the sociapath explaination line as well to explain reasoning there./

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:49pm

A sociopath is someone who lacks the ability to feel a social responsibility.So he feels as if he doesn't need to take care of anyone but himself. That's what I meant.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:50pm

" he feels as if he doesn't need to take care of anyone but himself."

When did I say that?

/And attempts to defuse the conversation providing additional context./

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:51pm

I was also, still kidding, but I know it's hard to tell that through text.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:52pm

You don't need to defend your character, dude. lol. This is how I tease.

/Sin doubles down on the sociopath comment./

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:52pm

"If you can heal yourself to keep fighting who cares if your allies get hurt." - Sociopath xD

/Awas has moved back to the RP he was working on./

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:52pm

Aaaannnd a whopping 22 damage to Orival's self.

Ysmyrelda Xanatos (Lady.Norale)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:53pm

Snickers pointing to Pira That's when you said it.

/And GE returns to defending the reasoning./

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:53pm

That had nothing to do with Ralean. That was a comment I was making.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:54pm

Hence why I then specified that the reasoning for Ralean healing himself wasn't because of selfishness.

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:57pm

Because you OOC dont want healers to use their magic to heal you at a distance xD

But hey, fair is fair, If your view is "who cares if your allies get hurt" - eventually those allies will stop helping you too ;)

/Things do seem to be getting much more tense at this point. And Awas asks for things to cool down./

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:57pm

Gentlemen, play nice.

/And the conversaion continues. Sin appears to be on the defensive to Awas's request to cool things down./

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 3:59pm

Whom is being unnice? He said 'the reasoning for Ralean healing himself' and before that he mentioned it was because he didnt want the healers coming close.

I was just repeating what he said - and pointing out that if Ralean clearly only cares about himself that eventually allies will stop caring about him.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:00pm

OOC has nothing to do with the decisions my characters end up making.

IC there are reasons why Ralean wants to learn healing magic and he can only heal himself due to the nature of the magic he is using.

/At this point it is definately getting heated, and it does seem like GE is feeling obliged to defend his OOC vs IC logic./

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:00pm

"Making it so that healers don't have to get near him when he's bleeding everywhere is." - the reasoning is so the healers dont have have to get near him.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:01pm

Also there are reasons he doesn't want people to get near him while he is bleeding.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:01pm

I'm aware.

/Sin points out a double standard in interactions./

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:01pm

I do so love double standards :)

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:02pm

You are aware - so quitcherbitchin. Noone is being rude. xD

/And Zxe steps in./

Zxehenia
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:03pm

Regardless, this is starting to become the realm of nitpicking, which GE has been talked to about doing in the past.

Orival Theodric (awoundandscar66)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:03pm

Hmm.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:07pm

Wait, so I'm in trouble again? :/

Zxehenia
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:09pm

No you are not GE, just showing that what happened here is the same as you have done in the past.
We asked you to stop when it reaches a point, and the same goes for others.

TheGodEmperor
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:11pm

Ah, ok.

/Sin continues with the line of questioning instead of dropping the subject./

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:12pm

Why would you think you were in trouble, TGE? :)

I was asking questions to clarify my understanding of your opinion.

Orival was 'just kidding' when he was passing idle judgement against you and your character - a familiar thing really xD

Zxehenia
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 4:15pm

Anyways, it is time for a subject change.

I like cookies

/And the subject is changed to cookies./


This was followed by a green strike for Social needing to step in. Keeping in mind that Green strikes are not disciplinary at all - they are a record of contact. (Technically you can get a green strike for doing something good! We want to make sure we have a up to date record of interactions between the players and the department.) We use Greens to keep track of interactions for the department for... exactly situations like this, amongst other reasons. Per Social policy - if a Social department member has to put on the Social hat - they are required to record the interaction.

There seems to have been a large amount of defensive response to the Green - which I don't have access to the logs for.

I can't tell you the exact content of the Green, or any PMs associated with it. But I can give a rough time-frame of when it was received.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Around the time of these postings in Limbo:

http://vaxia.org/comment/108737#comment-108737
Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 10:34pm

Hey TGE, I sent you a PM when you get a moment.

http://vaxia.org/comment/108763#comment-108763
Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 11:09pm

will be staying out of limbo from here on out...apparently its nothing but problematic...if anyone needs to get ahold of me I have PMs on Vaxia, I check the forums regularly, and I have ICQ...beyond that...no more.

He returns to Limbo a day later, Thu, 07/31/2014 - 2:42pm
http://vaxia.org/comment/109187#comment-109187


The next day, August 1st, we have the posts in the forums about Awas's ideas for a fight club.

http://vaxia.org/forums/fight-club

Key posts here are:
http://vaxia.org/comment/109783#comment-109783
http://vaxia.org/comment/109943#comment-109943
http://vaxia.org/comment/109982#comment-109982

And responses here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/110080#comment-110080
http://vaxia.org/comment/110082#comment-110082
http://vaxia.org/comment/110083#comment-110083
http://vaxia.org/comment/110084#comment-110084

At which point it looks like this will be heading to mediation.


Also throughout the days leading up to the weekend and weekend, all four Leads had been actively working on four different character by Sin - coordinating item requests, Other character species, char eval, and negotiating the widths of skills throughout this - while at the same time providing advice and support to the Social lead in our roles as Social department. In that context by the evening of the 1st I had received multiple contacts on topics that we had mentioned multiples were in development or coming up for review in the future. Two different forum posts that had not waited a week were bumped by Sin.

Revisions to the first one as noted here: http://vaxia.org/node/10821/revisions was to add "Still Pending
And on the original request, Maddy replies to note that the Setting department is swamped: http://vaxia.org/comment/110070#comment-110070

In that context that brings us to Aug 1st, evening around 10:15pm:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

/Zxe was discussing the current work load Sessions has, and her efforts to review evaluation questions./

http://vaxia.org/comment/110184#comment-110184

Zxehenia
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 9:06pm Permalink

Ah yes sessions, dun remind me I got some of those to work up more as well, and get one big project pushed through, and yes reviewing stuff. weeee.

Later Chord

LadyKirsten
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 9:08pm Permalink

Is it Balec-bo-Balec-Banana-Fanna-Fo-Falic-Me-Mi-Mo-Malic? I sure hope it is. ;)

Sends Zxe an army of clones to help with the work We need more clones people! Extra strength helpers!

Zxehenia
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 9:09pm Permalink

Ooo I hope they aren't clones of me... that wouldn't be so good XD

/Discussions of clones continued till this post:/

http://vaxia.org/comment/110193#comment-110193

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 9:15pm Permalink

sends Sin's entire character box to ALL go help Zxe with her work

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b544/SinsationalWritings/characters_...

/I logged in after handling char evaluation for the greater part of the evening./

At the risk of putting non-textual elements in here - there is clarification here that I can provide re: my mindset. Feel free to ignore if needed: I took the post as a passive aggressive reminder to nudge us to rush the character evaluation as it was the second 'bump' I has seen that day, and the third or fourth contact about characters. At that point we had processed or been contacted about 4 characters within the last 24 hours, 5 within the last 48 hours. The text on the image, indicating that the image had been manipulated after screen capture to specifically note the character I had put back to draft the day before, didn't help.

I will freely admit my response was knee jerk, but I removed myself from the sitation to avoid further outbursts.

SH Sysop (Bastlynn)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:13pm Permalink

.... dude.

not cool.

SH Sysop (Bastlynn)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:13pm Permalink

goes back offline to go work on shit because apparently having fun isn't something i'm allowed to do

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:18pm Permalink

I think shes referring to me making a screenshot of my character list o.O But it wasnt an attack against anyone.

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:20pm Permalink

I even posted in my post 'I sent all these people to go help Zxe' there was nothing negative against anyone involved o.O

/Some scattered chatter here, Boblet expresses worry re: his own PM, Zxe reassures him./

Zxehenia
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:24pm Permalink

Oh no no no, we got it, just we got slammed with a ton of other requests at the same time, in addition to on going rebuilding and building projects, meant to tell you that and I guess it slipped my mind ugh face desks course I prolly im'd it to the wrong person or never hit enter before power went splat.

Lil' Firestarter, Pirantia DelaCourte (Sinsational)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:25pm Permalink

heads out because apparently I cant even play around with everyone else in limbo without doing things wrong when I didnt even say or do anything negative. I cant fucking do anything right... Hope you all have a good 3 extra months -.-


Throughout the weekend, I was receiving ICQ messages as follows. These were documented at the time via PM:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

I've highlighted the bits that may be relevant to the course of events.

July 31st

6:45:14 PM Sinsational: -lix the kitty-
6:46:59 PM Eludere: ?!
6:47:03 PM Eludere: ah - vaxia - gotcha
6:47:08 PM Eludere: how'd you get mu icq?
685480407 is now known as Sinsational Writings.
(6:47:24 PM)
6:47:29 PM Sinsational: It popped up on my main page for ICQ...along with Jimmy, Zxe, Maelstrom and others.
6:47:55 PM Eludere: well more like - i didn't think i had added you before??
6:48:18 PM Sinsational: You didnt. You were on the 'suggested friends' thing. xD
6:48:42 PM Eludere: ahhh okies - interesting
6:49:02 PM Eludere: cool - so you know i actualyl realyl Really perfer to handle session and site stuff through the site
6:49:02 PM Sinsational: Yupz!
6:49:30 PM Eludere: keeps me from having work and life and social and game all bleed over on top of each other and helps keep me honest too
6:49:53 PM Sinsational: No problem It was more of a 'in case Bast ever wants to talk to me when im not on vaxia'.
6:50:09 PM Eludere: (i tell folks that up front so it makes it easier when i say "Loves you but can you PM me that?" )
6:50:17 PM Eludere: coolness - makes sense
Sinsational is offering to send file icq main page.jpg (6:50:30 PM)
Starting transfer of icq main page.jpg from Sinsational (6:51:02 PM)
Sinsational cancelled the transfer of icq main page.jpg (6:51:17 PM)
6:51:32 PM Eludere: heh icq still has firewall issues
6:51:43 PM Eludere: ok - i've got to go quiet mode here - set up first post
Changed status to Offline (6:52:19 PM)

August 1st

11:14:12 AM Sinsational: -hugs and offers coffee-
1:55:09 PM Eludere: groggy looks up mmmcoffee
1:55:18 PM Sinsational: -offers donuts-
1:55:27 PM Eludere: aim => answering machine so expect delays
1:55:40 PM Eludere: squinty look those better be krispy kreme
1:55:51 PM Eludere: though any donuts are better than no donuts
1:56:08 PM Sinsational: -isnt worried nor trying to rush for replies- xD So long as I eventually get a response im all good. And yes they are krispy kreme.
1:56:50 PM Eludere: good i would also have accepted "tim hortons" as an acceptable substitute - but going to canada for donuts is just not worth it when i've got the krispy right downt he road
1:57:23 PM Eludere: i mention cause i know i really dont use aim the way a lot of people do - and i've gotten yelled at until i put people straight - so i just go ahead and explain upf front
1:57:29 PM Eludere: shortcircuits any hurt feelings that way
1:57:57 PM Sinsational: Perfectly understandable for me
2:14:31 PM Sinsational: Did you enjoy yourself last night?
2:15:33 PM Eludere: i rarely do with sessions actualyl -i'm usualyl too busy in self doubt or typing up a storm to get around to Enjoying it it's after when i read over everything and go "ok - That rocked"
2:16:07 PM Eludere: which is somewhere before doing my self review for things to improve on next time
2:16:20 PM Sinsational: Yay Bast!
4:20:06 PM Sinsational: Is there a block function on Vaxia?
7:34:23 PM Eludere: no, it's not really practical on an open rp site
7:34:55 PM Eludere: i would [b]greatly prefer to handle vaxia questions on vaxia in the open - we have had issues with back channel interactions in the recent past - so pitch anything like this into the forums and i'll be glad to help there [/b]
7:41:42 PM Sinsational: No problems It was just a quicky question to be submitted not so much a forum based question
11:20:16 PM Sinsational: I wanted firstly to appologize for any assumed messages that the SH staff might have taken from me posting my character list in a post that says 'sends my characters to help Zxe'...but as I am apparently a beligerant asshole I will go ahead and walk away before anyone else gets mad at me. Thank you for rp'ing with me as jakob and letting me in sessions. I hope my donations allow vaxia to thrive for a good while.
11:30:02 PM Sinsational: I wish you and vaxia the best in all future endeavors. Take care of yourself bast. goodbye.

August 3rd

12:37:59 AM Sinsational: I hope all is well for you.

August 4th

3:54:47 PM Eludere: Hello. At this point I've asked you twice to handle contact with me on any topic relating to Vaxia on Vaxia. With this third message, and in light of the conversation in Limbo Saturday night I no longer feel that off-site communication is appropriate. Nor do I feel personally comfortable continuing this communication channel. I'm going to be blocking you after this and request that you feel free to chat me up on Vaxia. Please don't take this personally, but I feel it is best for both of us if we keep it on Vaxia.


Lady K informed the Leads that she would be opening a Mediation PM with Awas and Sin on the 1st, and offered to include us on it - but we didn't want to disrupt the mediation by making anyone feel intimidated by number, and LadyK felt confident in going forward.

The contents of that mediation you can find above. It started and ended on the 2nd.

I don't have access to those PMs but it seems there was a lot of conversation going on.


August 2nd, evening / August 3rd early morning: Limbo conversation #2

I think this is the last of the chunk of events.

Spoiler: Highlight to view

I think this indicates mediation broke down at midnight, August 2nd/3rd.

From here: http://vaxia.org/comment/110878#comment-110878
To here: http://vaxia.org/comment/110956#comment-110956

There are a number of points I find troubling in this conversation: LadyK's ability as a mediator and lead is called into question - which is the cited point of this grievance. Here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/110883#comment-110883
http://vaxia.org/comment/110891#comment-110891
http://vaxia.org/comment/110903#comment-110903

My own morals as a lead and technical admin seems to be being called into question on grounds of ethics as well. Words seem to be placed in my mouth, and I'm not entirely sure they aren't being placed in LadyK's as well. Namely here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/110943#comment-110943

Words were also being put into Zxe's mouth as she notes here:
http://vaxia.org/comment/110908#comment-110908
http://vaxia.org/comment/110912#comment-110912
http://vaxia.org/comment/110945#comment-110945

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:02am

Hope you two enjoy...my appetite just went out the window...as did my mood...though I would like to ask:

Is it possible to talk to an SH about problems who ISNT personally vested in the problem and instantly of a view during mediation to say everything is my fault right off the bat?

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:05am

There's only Maddy, Bast, Zxe and LadyK that are the SH's.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:10am

Well, tis home time for me! Toodles!!!

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:13am

LadyK is personally vested in the problem and in my effort for mediation for a problem she pointed out it was my fault and accused me of being combattive when I wasnt.

Bast appears to hate me and thinks the worst of me on things I didnt say or imply.

I dont think Zxe is all that fond of me either.

That only leaves Maddy and he is busy.

@ Tanya, Safe drive!

TheGodEmperor
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:13am

Later Tanya

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:44am

OK, first off, I just want to say that I don't have anything against you Sin and am reading your post with a completely different point of view than those that you have listed.

Having said that though, this is what I'm getting out of your request for someone else to mediate your case with Scar is that it has a combative tone because you apparently don't like what's being said. That's just the tone that I'm getting. Now someone else could come along and read that and get something completely different. That's the horrors of text. There's no body language to read, nor is there really any tone of voice. Actual tone of voice. I have no idea what you sound like. I only know a few people's voices on Vaxia and that's because of other mediums that I've heard them speaking.

Maybe it's time to take a time out from the whole thing and just calm down from it and come back when you can look at it when you're not upset. Even if it takes days or weeks. It's like the take a deep breath and count to 10. :) Never said what that count to 10 part was though. heh

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:50am

I wasnt being at all combative - LadyK is always accusing me of being wrong and combattive and being the cause with every issue.

I answered his questions on the mediation honestly, neutrally, and with an open mind and she accused me of the exact opposite.

Im the one who requested mediation in the first place because I -WANT- to fix the problems.

I asked for another mediator because the mediator in question has had AWAS sleep in her home before and it is in my view a conflict of interests - and also because the mediator in question shows no capacity for neutrality in the mediation. One post into the mediation and she is instantly all "its all your fault and you are being aggressive."

Just like my problem with Bast the other day - I asked LadyK about it and her answer was "Its all your fault, you said this." when my post was 'sends his characters to help Zxe with her work' not 'the eval department are lazy assholes who never do shit' - which is what I was told the eval department were saying I said.

I have no idea how one translates to the other but thats what people claimed I said.

TheGodEmperor
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:56am

Complaining about it in limbo isn't going to help anyone.

If everyone truly has it out for you like you claim then why stick around?

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:57am

I asked a question in limbo. There is a difference.

Dont get me started on you TGE.

You are a fine one to instruct other people how to use limbo with your 'im just joking!' or 'I guess I cant joke here' while simultaneously insulting people events.

TheGodEmperor
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:58am

Well see you later guys.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:59am

I love roleplaying - and I love what Vaxia stands for.

I never once said 'everyone has it out for me'.

I was very distinct in pointing out my problems to someone who questioned me about them.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:05am

I don't know what's being said and what not in the mediation as I am not part of it. So honestly, I couldn't begin to comment on it. For me, it's just a 'he said, she said' thing right now. And I'm not asking you to send me everything that was said, because that would be a huge file! XD

Maybe it was the wording that you used that didn't make it sound neutral. In text, that's a huge deal. Use the wrong word and it can take the whole thing out of context.

As for LadyK and Scar having spent time in the same place, then there's all kinds of conflict of interests here on Vaxia and nothing would ever get done if that was the case. Maddy and Bast are married and living in the same house. Boblet, Maddy and Bast all live in the same town and hang out with each other on occasion. Maddy and Zxe used to live with each other, though now she lives in the desert and Maddy is on the east coast. LadyK and Chord are married and live in the same house. I've been part of this site for 13 years now, and Maddy, Boblet and Zxe have been here just as long, if not longer. So really, there's lots that could be considered a conflict of interest.

But what you did that got Bast upset was that you posted a screen shot of your character list with all but 3 of them listed as approved. If you were in Bast's shoes and saw that picture, what would you think about that?

Bast works her ass off for this site. She is a SH, she is Admin which means that she does all the coding for this website and she's Setting Co-Head. She volunteers her time to this site and cares a great deal for this site. As do all of us here otherwise, we wouldn't be here, we wouldn't spend hours upon hours of our time doing the role playing, or the running of sessions, or the wiki entries that need to be done, or the setting up of a new department.

As for GE, he has his moments and he has his issues. Just like we all do, but that "Don't get me started on your TGE." ... That just screams that you're looking for a fight. Unfortunately, there's no mistaking the tone in that phrase at all. :(

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:06am

chuckles a bit and just goes back to watching. Already knows he is a 'problem child' too.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:11am

If I was in Bast's shoes I would think "This guy has alot of characters who are being sent to help Zxe!" which was the post.

There was nothing posted by me nor pointed out by me in regards to the characters in eval - the only red marks on the picture were notes "Pending Change" because I was changing that character to something else and "Kobolds not permitted" because they arent with lines on "PUBLISHED" for the characters I hadnt posted as before.

Im not looking for any fight - I told someone not to get me started on their hypocricy.

It was advice to someone who has a problem with causing issues in limbo frequently and purposely and then calling it a joke because of a personal disorder that doesnt let them know when they are upsetting people.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:12am

In my view I have not had any issue at all with you, Boblet. You have never once attacked, insulted, or accused me of things I didnt even do or say.

You are a good guy and im sure if YOU had problems with someone you would confront them in private and let them know your view without attacks or insults or accusations.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:16am

The only people I have problems with are people who took a direct and pointed approach to insult me or accuse me of things that I didnt do.

If you have to resort to blatantly attacking me or lying about me - yes I will have an issue about it and there will be confrontation.

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:16am

Me, private? Sin, um no I probably wouldn't. I've been likened to a jackhammer. My tact and subtlety has been equated to "a punch to the face". You have to really do something I deem stupid or frustrate the hell outta me to get me to insulting though

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:17am

See xD

Thats still better than what ive been dealing with lately.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:18am

I don't like people? Eh I get that a lot. Everyone in high school made sure to stand across the room from me.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:19am

I'm just stating what I'm seeing, and what I'm seeing is that it's sounding like you're getting upset about all this that's going on. And just from what you've told me, it sounds like the bridges to the SH's are getting burned pretty fast too. :\

As for this, I still think everyone should take some time away from the issue, no one bring it up, no one accusing anyone else of anything. Just go take a breather. Relax, clear your mind of being upset and then come back to the issue. But there's that key in there, clear your head and not be upset. XD

Boblet is the King of giving verbal blunt force trauma to the head. :D hee hee

Perches on Zxe! I like you! :D Though I've never met you in person either. hee hee

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:20am

I didnt say you dont like people.

I said "I dont think Zxe is all that fond of me either."

You see! People keep reading what I say completely out of context. xD

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:21am

So, in other words, Boblet would be the perfect mediator xD

Because he tells EXACTLY what he thinks and has no connection to people that would make him favor one over the other just because.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:21am

To me don't think all that fond, indicates a dislike, and this would translate to me not liking you. Last I check you was a person, thus you would count as people, so my sentence still stands.

It kind of amuses me. Even online I have managed to keep my imposing presence XD

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:22am

Well according to what ive been told that the eval team thinks - im less than a person so I wouldnt count as a person.

I also had 'i dont think' thus it was an opinion not a fact xD

You could easily prove me wrong in that case.

But yes, you are imposing.

You are like Brig only zebraish...

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:23am

Scar, is very sardonic to begin with, lessening to sarcastic. It is his personality. A biting wit. Most operate ala voice better than ala text, cuz they lose all the undertones

I've just learned over 15 years you have to exaggerate, add non talky bits like smiles, and sometimes preamble otherwise it gets read in the wrong context. Experience

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:23am

I doubt Bob would want the job of mediator and I don't think that there would be people that would want Bob as a Mediator. Mediation tends to require someone that isn't the King of verbal blunt force trauma to the head. XD

No offense Bob! :) I still love you! :D

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:25am

Though... we have an eval team?

Angra
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:26am

Do you have any idea how efficient government would be if all our politicians were as blunt as Boblet... god we'd be colonizing pluto by now.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:26am

Should have seen the one year where in chemistry class, we had to pair ourselves off. I walked solo to a lab station and began working and everyone fought to -not- be my lab partner.

I can be blunt, curt, direct, as I think more in terms of scientific writing due to the fact of my academic career thus far.

TBH I am just not a big talker. Notable exceptions - boblet, we dated for a fair amount of time, and have known each other for like what 12 years? So I am comfortable around him. I have known maddy for 14 years.

So unless asked a question, I tend to remain quiet, unless I happen to think I have a good on liner.

All SH's are evallers, so technically I guess we are a team shrugs

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:26am

@ Bob, Which ive tried to point out to AWAS and LadyK both - I dont know AWAS - I dont know his personality.

While his friends that know him would shrug things off and laugh it off - all I see is that in the two weeks that ive been here ive witnessed him personally attacking two people in less than one week.

I would rather hear a verbal blunt force trauma to the head no bull assessment than have someone who is close to someone tell me everything is my fault and im being in a way im not in order to stroke the ego of their buddy and make them feel they are faultless.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:26am

But Sin, I have to ask, what are you hoping to get out of this mediation? If it's what I think it is and about the whole thing on the forums with Scar?

Falls over laughing at Angra!

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:27am

snickers to Jill, I am not a patient person when it comes to debates

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:28am

@Boblet: Ah yes, there was that too. tee hee

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:28am

No you are not boblet chuckles but its damn fun to get you riled up.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:29am

I probably woulda been the shy guy that woulda been the last one picked for partners and been stuck with you Zxe.

Tanya, I want to FIX problems. Its why I asked for mediation with AWAS, its why I asked for mediation with Bast and the eval team who LadyK said were accusing me of things I never said. My issue with Scar isnt JUST involving the forum issue it also includes his actions in limbo days before.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:30am

Actually no one was my partner for 5 months. One group begged to be a team of 3 to avoid me.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:31am

I ask for mediation for the same reason I take my car to a mechanic or go to the hospital when im sick. Because someone who knows what they are doing might have better success at helping problems be worked out versus me doing the army answer and drinking water to fix everything.

Bleeding from an artery? Put a tampon on it and drink water.

Break your arm? Take a tylonel and drink water.

Car exploded in a massive boblet fireball? Drink water then crap your pants. (not necessarily in that order)

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:32am

I probably woulda, Zxe. I was so shy in school that I would totally avoid most any group because groups meant I would be bullied more for being a nerd. Now I have ptsd so its even worse - I utterly hate crowds.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:32am

Oh yeah! I've got a couple of slow posts to post at! bounces

Oh hey! Zxe, I left another post for you, if you think you can get another one out tonight. :D

@Sin: Ok... So how do you want to fix your problems then? Like, what do you want the end result to be? Problems fixed by both parties doing what? What would it take to fix the problems that you're having with these people? That's what I'm asking.

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:35am

stares at Jev, I'm not sure if that's a compliment or a threat (and to who)....

Seriously, though, they are right. I know most of my limits. I will never be a part of Social department. I tend to be harsh, pass judgement easily and can be quite callous. (couple steps shy of just saying "I don't care"). I'm also quite stubborn I will argue with a wall

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:36am

An appology that was actually MEANT would be nice - not an appology where the person admits they only appologized because they think im an idiot.

I would like to work the problems out and have them understand where im coming from without the SH blaming everything on me after the first post into the mediation.

If I know people better I dont take their personality as abrasively than I would as a stranger.

I dont LIKE having problems with people...it stresses me out which only makes me sick...I dont like being sick...

When Bast started hating me for something I never even said - I started crying so hard I puked.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:37am

I was a goth in a redneck school. Columbine - I was locked in a closet by a teacher to make sure I wasn't about to go on some murderous rampage.

I don't socialize well, again back to notable exceptions.

and yes, Boblet will argue with a wall, I have watched him do it, and have encouraged it.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:37am

We should just clone Boblet entirely and put him in charge of the US Government. NOONE would attack us and noone would try to argue within the senate, house, or UN.

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:37am

Only two people I can semi mediate for. Jill, when she's being a knucklehead (she's also quite vocal and stubborn) and Maelstrom (same thing). Like bloody bighorm sheep. Grrr KLONK. My head is harder ythan yours

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:38am

No video on the Bob Wall debate?

You wouldnt have to socialize with me, Zxe.

Just be "Yes you are here, yes we can work together."

We wouldnt have to hold hands and skip sunshine and rainbows down a hallway together singing a mary poppins song.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:38am

The only people I know Bast hates is racist assholes. Generally she is very good about voicing her hate of someone.

Actually I would try and argue with the boblet clones. I rather enjoy arguing with boblet.

Ysmyrelda Xanatos (Lady.Norale)
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:41am

Can I still sing a mary poppins song?

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:41am

laughs if Bast hates you, the whole site will know it and NO ONE will have any doubts. snickers, she, when mad at someone, can actually be blunter than me (and level headed...I go stab trees)

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:42am

It is rather amusing watching him trying to swat at trees.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:44am

Bast stormed offline and refused to talk to me after and still hasnt.

And according to ladyk there is no doubts that the evallers think im an asshole so I dunno.

Im by no means racist tho.

Sure Ysmy, go ahead.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:44am

Only if it can be done in death metal lady N

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:44am

Translation: Zxe doesnt do well in communicating with people. So A. She comes off as direct and sergeant like or B. forgets to communicate, even like "we are aware, working on it". A.k.a. it is her, not you

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:45am

So im sure the whole site probably does know especially since everyone has connections in one way or another to Bast.

Im surprised there isnt a sign on the welcome page to Vaxia saying something like 'SINSATIONAL, GTFO!'

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:45am

This would be the second time you have said that I think something negative of you.

Which I don't. To be clear, if I do not like you. You will know.

For yes, I am an evaller as well -all- the SH's are evallers.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:45am

This would be the second time you have said that I think something negative of you.

Which I don't. To be clear, if I do not like you. You will know.

For yes, I am an evaller as well -all- the SH's are evallers.

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:46am

Scar did apologize in the forums a couple of times. To me it sounded like he meant it and not apologizing to you for the sake of apologizing. :\

But right now, with what you said about knowing people. You've been here 2 and a half weeks, you can't say that you know all of us. It takes much longer than that to get to know people, even those that aren't around all of the time either. Scar is one of those people that isn't around all of the time like most of the rest of us.

Yeah, me and Boblet have had our fair share of arguments. hee hee Sometimes I need that Boblet bluntness and more stubbornness than me. XD It's quite amusing sometimes. hee hee

I still think everyone needs to take a breather from the issue. And I mean EVERYONE!!!! Anyone in Limbo, anyone on PM's or IM's. Let everyone calm down because obviously emotions are running extremely high right now. So let's drop the subject and hear LadyN sing Marry Poppins!!! :D

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:48am

Also if you feel like you have really been done wrong by the SH's we do have the Anon-mailer where you can file a former grievance and request an investigation into the SH's and attach any logs of the conversations of which said grievances were to have occured.

I also on occasion tend to talk in the royal we, but hearing voices is also viable in certain moments.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:49am

One of my raiders has been quoted in saying...that thanks to me, he survived boot camp.

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:49am

idly contemplates being a smartass back and acting like he doesn't know what xD means. As amusing as it'd be, opts not to....mostly.

ASH Iteru(Angra) Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:49am

Does his best Dick Van Dyke impression. My that's a very suggestive name. Oh it's a jolly holiday with Marry

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:49am

LadyK told me that thats what the eval staff thought of me when I posted that screenshot of my character list - which never even once said anything about the evallers. But according to LadyK they all hated me because of it.

Tanya, Scar in the mediation admitted he only apologized because he thinks im wrong.

I dont say I know everyone. But in the two weeks ive been around how often have any of you attacked me? xD

Tanya - None.
Boblet - None.
Zxe - She bit me because I petted her i think she was hungry.
Madius - None
Angra - None.

Zxehenia
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:51am

I bite everyone, its a principle kind of thing.

Sinsational
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:52am

offers zxe a lollipop

Boblet
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:52am

Angra is hardly on. I have been semi vacation mode. Madius...you probably deserved it. Jill, she's on at weird times and misses a lot

Tanya
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 1:53am

Ok, but for now, no more talking of the mediation issue or any other issue that you're having right now. Because like I said, emotions are running high and everyone needs to step back and take a breather and calm down and come back when emotions are NOT running high. So please stop.

I miss you Boblet!!! Pounces! Gently of course. hee hee

Madius
Madius's picture.
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1 week 2 days ago
Logs

I don't have any new logs to add, just wanted to verify that what Sin posted here RE: his PMs with me matches what I've got. The screenshots he sent me of the mediation match the first three images under "From the mediation" in his post.

Just as a side note, as it's commentary on the logs themselves not the subjects in them: I noticed some discrepancies between Sin's and AWAS's reporting on the mediation thread, but it seems to be a case of cropping rather than editing, and I'm not seeing much in the cropped pieces that changes the overall tone - putting the two logs together seems to create one coherent spread on the mediation end.

Hope that helps!

awoundandscar66
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More.

http://vaxia.org/comment/108526#comment-108526 This was my post comment stating I was kidding. I had called TGE's character a sociopath, and explained I knew it was difficult to tell on text, so I explained why I said that.

http://vaxia.org/comment/108534#comment-108534 This was the comment that was taken rudely by Sin.

Also, this comment: http://vaxia.org/comment/108528#comment-108528 was actually going along with my sociopath comment, where as it was claimed I was the only assailant in the situation.

LadyKirsten
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A favor, if I could

Instead of attaching the logs directly is it possible for me to link directly to my two private message threads? That way, for those who want to see them in one long chunk of text they could just click on it and read it like a normal message?

If that's possible, I think it might be preferable for me to just have a nice little link to click. Thanks!

Bastlynn
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There isn't really a way to

There isn't really a way to directly link into things. Drupal's security system will zap that sort of direct linking. I've been using the spoiler tag and directly copy and pasting the text into posts.

LadyKirsten
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Ah, okey doke.

I will do that then. Thank you for the heads up. :)

Ok, so I'm noticing a bit of a trend. I seem to be misquoted quite a lot. Both in this thread and in Limbo. I'm sure it's unintentional, so I'd at least like to show how I remember the logs.

In response to #5: "When ladyk told me straight up that things that arent preexisting cant be requested or created - did I flip shit in limbo? No, I continued to talk to her in pm about it until she explained what she ACTUALLY meant and she explained she misworded it and copy pasted so the tone was worse than intended."

To show the text referred to:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Sinsational Jul 23 Delete Block All good things...all good things...

Change for Rifle Skill Added tracking of target:
Onboard Weapons: Laser Arm Rifle - SAMI is equipped with an assortment of on-board systems dedicated to combat - of which includes his on-board weaponry and the maintenance of them. SAMI is also capable of carefully tracking trajectories and movements of targets to lock his target tracking systems on it. He can utilize his rifle as a stun weapon, lethal weapon or on continuous feed as a cutter (Treat as standard rifle skill.)

Change for Endure skill Changed from 'Electrical' to Energy
Flawless Design : The particular design of SAMI having been put with space combat in mind allowed for his body to shelter much of his systems internally within the shell of armor. This shell is capable of resisting cold, heat, acid, projectile, extreme pressures or vacuums, impact, and energy be it weapon based, shield, reactor or purely electrical. It cannot however directly resist magic or psionic elemental attacks.

1 Onboard Weapons: Plasma Blade - SAMI is equipped with an unusual weapon sheltered in his leg which he can use offensively or defensively - a blade of ionized particles which is capable of cutting through high tensile metals as well as much of anything else including energy barriers. The blade is capable of draining electrical or energy sources adding the power to SAMI's battery and making the source inoperable. SAMI is capable of caring for his equipment. SAMI is also capable of carefully tracking trajectories and movements of targets to lock his target tracking systems on it.

1 Onboard Weapons: Gatling Energy Cannon - SAMI is equipped within his left arm with a energy cannon for use when the rifle isnt quite enough. The gatling erupts with with eight barrels of rapidly firing energy or plasma capable of chewing through metal or shielding. SAMI is capable of caring for his equipment. SAMI is also capable of carefully tracking trajectories and movements of targets to lock his target tracking systems on it.

1 Onboard Weapons: Rail Cannon - SAMI is equipped with a rail gun emplaced sheltered in his back which hypercharges metal or raw energy to launch at high velocities towards a target to damage larger targets. The cells can also be charged to allow him to launch charged items towards targets. He can perform trick shots with the cannon including intercepting other incoming items with the projectiles. SAMI is capable of caring for his equipment. SAMI is also capable of carefully tracking trajectories and movements of targets to lock his target tracking systems on it.

1 Stealth Field: - SAMI is equipped to move quietly and unseen while leaving no traces behind himself and with his boots able to magnetize he can move in stealth along the outter hull of ships in this way. He is able to thwart sensors remaining unnoticed. Equipped with a mutaren stealth field he is able to go invisible to detection but retains the radiation for proper disposal or use as an emergency AOE weapon. SAMI is capable of caring for his equipment. It is possible that SAMI can orient this field to disrupt other electronics.

0 Jump Drive: - SAMI is equipped with the protocols for navigation including waypoint to waypoint and starcharts and the equipment necessary to allow space jumps and if attached to another object he can make space jumps towing the item from one point in space to another without jumping into anything or colliding into anything while doing it. While jumping SAMI is shielded from outside influences or fluke disasters.

1 Technical Reparations: - SAMI is equipped with a technological repair protocol and a built in selection of tools for such an activity allowing him to fix himself and other technologically based items or disassemble them, scan them to find mechanical or code problems, and to be able to upgrade them. They are an automated system with multiple pairs of smaller arms to work out the repairs. (Includes military grade cutting torches and welders)

1 Medical Reparations: - SAMI is equipped with a medical repair protocol and a built in selection of tools for such an activity allowing him to scan to examine and diagnose, treat, or provide medications or drugs along the way. This also allows SAMI to have access to a chemical sniffer for invisible gasses. They are an automated system with multiple pairs of smaller arms to work out the medical repairs. (Includes Surgical Lasers)

1 Computational Service: - SAMI is equipped with the capacity to work through programming at a rapid pace coding, decoding, encrypting and decrypting. Whether wireless or hardwired in he can hack other systems while remaining undetectable and can provide himself with defenses against hacking and security breaches or fight off attempts at incursion. He can also process large amounts of data, store it, or back it up at a more rapid pace.

You Jul 25 Delete
Okay, sorry for the delay. We had some very big explosions going off and it took a while to get it calmed down. After looking over the skills (and talking to Madius) we came up with the following...

The targeting is fine, it's just flavor. The stun/lethal/cutter, though is something you'll need to ask Setting about. But I'm pretty sure you can't do all that with a standard issue rifle (also, using the butt of the rifle to knock someone out would be a different skill).

The Endure skill is a bit broad at this point. Heat, cold, acid, extreme pressure and vacuums are all environmental effects. The rest are combat things, so they're already covered under his weapon skill - adding them to endure is just doubling up (and makes it too broad), so we'd suggest that you take those off the list.

The "weapons" should be items, not skills. Each skill should just be "Skilled in using [weapon] in combat," but you will probably want to talk to setting about exactly what those weapons look like now that some changes to the wiki have been made. So make sure those weapons exist and are attainable before spending points on the skills to use them.

Stealth field is also too broad - invisibility and sound dampening would be it's own skill (as regular stealth). The radiation burst for damage or EMP would be its own skill, or an item. So if Setting says it exists then you can get one.

Jump Drive is fine so long as it's made clear SAMI's not the one making the jump, so he can't teleport - he can just calculate how to guide a ship capable of jumping on how to do so safely.

Technical reparations just needs to remove reference to the tools used - they're done separately as items. Otherwise, it's fine.

Medical reparations is fine.

Computational Service is fine.

So, let me know what changes you want to make, and where you want to pull points from to make the skills that are good to go (IE: Medical reparations, computational service, and the others that just need wording swaps). Sorry I couldn't help with more, but Setting is gonna easily get those last couple squared away for you. :)

Sinsational Jul 25 Delete Block
SAMI cant use the butt of the rifle to knock someone out because the rifle's internals are built INTO his body - the three types of use of the rifle are just different settings of energy going through it.

None of SAMI's weapons are attainable in game -Swords dont exist and weapons more than 'rifle' or 'pistol' dont exist.

Stealth - I refer to http://vaxia.org/wiki/sirian/items-and-equipment/cloaking-shields as to why the shield can do the radiation release or EMP.

Jump Drive - The Jump Drive is built into SAMI - he could jump - in space. He couldnt do it to cross a space station or anything.

Technical and Medical both referred to the tools being part of the package in order to take care of the situations in use.

I guess ill just leave SAMI the way he is.

Thanks anyway.

You Jul 25 Delete
If you're sure. Otherwise a bunch of them are ready to go with just a couple tweaks. If you change your mind, let me know, or even madius or bast or zxe. I'm the first to admit that I'm not terribly confident on the sirian side of the information.

Sinsational Jul 25 Delete Block
None of what I would need for SAMI exists - so it cant be done.

There are no built in medical devices or repair devices in the system so as per your response before it doesnt exist and cant be used as a skill. :)

As you said yourself "So make sure those weapons exist and are attainable before spending points on the skills to use them."

Nothing exists for SAMI - even the rifle he has on his inventory is being used IC in a way that doesnt exist.

Why waste more of your or anyone elses time on my dumb ass character?

I think ill just put SAMI inactive and save the headache.

You Jul 25 Delete
Sorry, about that. Heh. I actually copy pasted the responses so my tone was a bit... harsher than I realized.

Just because something doesn't exist yet though, doesn't mean that it can't be made. That's exactly what we have a setting department for.

And believe me, it would never be a waste of our time. Sami rocks and so do you. :) We want you to have fun, and we will do anything in our power to do so.

Sinsational Jul 25 Delete Block
But you said yourself "dont make skills for things that dont already exist"...which IS SAMI. SAMI didnt exist. So I shouldnt have tried to make him.

Why bother setting about things like that? They have more important things to worry about - such as "Where do people go potty?"

You Jul 25 Delete
Hee hee. Nah. Setting is in charge of everything really. It's a big job, but they are really good at it. Besides, it's awesome to introduce new things. Otherwise the game falters and we fail to keep it a living world.

I really am sorry that I couldn't be more help, but I can promise you that both Zxe and Bast are both awesome and want to get Sami as close to your vision as possible. They really do rock, and they're wonderful at their jobs.

I'm sorry that there's been a setback, but I hope you don't shelve him completely like you'd said you might do. He's a cool character and I think he's a great addition to the game.

Sinsational Jul 26 Delete Block
Setback I can handle...being told that if something isnt preexisting that it cant be made stifled my will to try.

You Jul 26 Delete
I am incredibly sorry that is how it came across. It was not my intention. To my knowledge, many things "don't exist" but are able to be made by Setting. I truly think that the items you're trying to get are possible. I'll run it up the flagpole to them and ask once I'm done with my family get together today. Sorry about the delay.

Sinsational Jul 26 Delete Block
I dont care about delays hun.

Sinsational Jul 27 Delete Block
How was the family gathering? xD

You Jul 27 Delete
It was nice, thanks for asking. :) How was your day?

Sinsational Jul 27 Delete Block
Long and stressful. Almost no relaxation all day.

You Jul 27 Delete
That's too bad. :( I hate having days like that. I keep thinking that there's a quota of how many crummy days a person can have, but then another one comes along and I think "Crumb cake. I guess there's at least one more in this quarter."

Sinsational Jul 27 Delete Block
Hehe ^_^ This last week has been rather bad altogether. I hope things pick up again.

You Jul 27 Delete
I have faith that it will. :) At a certain point, there's no where to go but up.

Sinsational Jul 27 Delete Block
Yeah once you faceplant the ground xD

On comment 5 I am quoted correctly, but by comment 7 the quote has changed significantly. As stated in comment 10, I tried to clarify that I was unsure of the setting and that my remarks were to say to ask setting directly so that they would be able to work out the specs. At no point did I say that "Things that don't exist. shouldn't exist."

I will now attach copies of the messages (PM and ICQ in chronological order) from August 1st:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
You Aug 1 Delete So, I thought you and I could have a quick discussion (away from limbo) about what happened. That way it's a little quieter and more private.

So I want to preface this by saying that I've already received a message from Bastlynn. She has explained that she's not mad, but she's worried that it came across as (possibly unintentionally) passive aggressive. So I was hoping to start up a dialogue here so that we can maybe iron out this and get to the core of some of the things that might be frustrating you.

Sinsational Aug 1 Delete Block
Presence: 25, Charisma: 25, Appearance: 25
SH Sysop
(Bastlynn)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:13pm PERMALINK
goes back offline to go work on shit because apparently having fun isn't something i'm allowed to do

Presence: 25, Charisma: 25, Appearance: 25
SH Sysop
(Bastlynn)
Fri, 08/01/2014 - 10:13pm PERMALINK
.... dude.

not cool.

===

Yeah, it certainly did come off aggressively.

Especially her jumping forward saying that she cant have fun when I never said anything of the sort.

If it hadnt been for my gmail blipping on my phone saying I had a new message I would have been gone - I logged out of vaxia and closed all windows.

Sinsational Aug 1 Delete Block
If you need me ill be on ICQ.

I have no reason to be 'here' anymore.

You Aug 1 Delete
Totally understood. And if you'd like to take time off, I fully understand. Just in the meantime I'll be here to chat if you need to.

In my above comment I was referring actually to your unintentionally passive aggressive comments. Sorry for the confusion. I'm referencing the fact that the list of characters was viewed by the evaluation staff as a Passive aggressive way to show that they weren't working fast enough. I know that it's hard to wait for characters (one of the ones on the list has been there since february). So showing the list was viewed as a more serious gesture than I think you meant it to be.

Because of our recent elections we had all three departments absolutely swamped with projects. The previous administration was gone for quite a while before the elections were held so work piled up really high. When we finally started back up, we also revitalized a department we hadn't had before, so the work load tripled. So Madius, Zxehenia, Bastlynn, and even myself have been having hard times with finding the time to play the game rather than work on the game.

I'm sure you can understand her frustrations as well. After all, being an all volunteer workforce means that we work around our own jobs and lives to keep the site running. But there are only so many hours in the day. Unfortunately most things can't be delegated off, and we have to do them. Which means that "fun" can sometimes feel like it's in short supply.

Sinsational Aug 1 Delete Block
I never once said they werent working fast enough! Nor did I hint at it.

I only listed the list of my character box showing how many of my characters I was sending to help Zxe with her work.

There was nothing at all said about the SH staff or the wait time for evals.

I have NEVER said anything negative about the SH staff and I have ALWAYS said I have no problem waiting.

If the evaluation staff thinks im such a belligerant asshole that I would ever say anything negative about them at all especially when I never said anything of the sort - then go ahead and delete my account.

I would rather not have to watch my back on every little thing I say in the off chance that someone will assume something that wasnt said, posted, or implied.

(Continuing from ICQ)

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:18)
We can talk here if you want.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:20)
We can do that. How we discuss is up to you. :)

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:21)
In the end it doesnt really matter does it? Apparently people are assuming the worst of me for things I never even implied. :(

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:22)
It still matters. Obviously, it's about a lot of issues that are sort of bubbling up. Like earlier today, when you were sure that AWAS was intentionally being rude, when he then explained that it had been a misunderstanding. That happens to literally everyone on site at least once.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:24)
Because twice in three days AWAS had taken personal measures to attack and insult me - then just like with TGE after the fact the story changes when its confronted including the "I was joking" thing.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:24)
Understood, but he explained that it was unintentional. Just like you unintentionally said that and that's how it seemed.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:25)
Bast already hates me for something I never even said, implied, or intended...so whats the point?

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:25)
She doesn't hate you. In fact she's said quite the opposite.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:25)
I wouldnt know anything about explanations. Ive stayed away from the forums and recently stayed away from Vaxia entirely because I upset Bast who I respect more than she realizes.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:26)
You dont have to lie for her, hun. I know hatred. It bubbles up like a dark shadow...she has nothing good to say of me because she thought I was being insulting towards the eval department.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:27)
There was at least one message from AWAS afterward, and he did say he was not sure how his tone had seemed that way.

Also, let me clarify, I never ever lie. Not at all. So when I say she has told me that in no uncertain terms I mean it.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:27)
There is a big difference between me thinking based on something that was 'SAID' that someone was attacking me vs the eval staff thinking based on a picture where nothing was said of the sort that it was spiteful intent.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:28)
Especially since eval are SH's and they all viewed me as saying something I wouldnt dream of saying :(

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:28)
Everyone seems to think im in some great rush even if I outright say im not or if I try to help with something.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:29)
I answer questions on the forums or post in the SH wanted topics - people get mad at me. I post in limbo - people get mad at me.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:29)
I am starting to think I should just keep to rp with LadyNorale because anything else I do on vaxia makes people hate me.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:30)
I don't think that anyone's getting mad. I think this might be boiling down to perspective somewhat. Where you see someone attacking you, they might not see it that way.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:31)
Bast got mad and erupted in anger in the middle of limbo.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:31)
And you're perfectly allowed to pick certain people to RP with. Nothing says you have to play with everyone. But i"ve seen that it's a tricky road to try and do that. After a while it begins to feel harder to do, and burnout happens faster when it's not as vibrant.

She was frustrated, but as she said, not angry.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:31)
I can tell you are getting annoyed with me also.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:32)
Nope, not at all.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:32)
May I ask a question?

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:33)
Ask.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:33)
Is it possible that you are letting your experiences on Vaxia the last time you were here cloud your judgement toward the way people are behaving toward you and percieving you?

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:35)
No. My previous experiences only color when people are doing similar things. Attacks in limbo and forums. People not asking about things but just assuming. I prefer to ask questions about things to better understand the especially if I think something is wrong.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:36)
From what I've heard, and seen, vaxia is nothing like it used to be. The attacks in limbo and the forums are few and far between and are almost always quickly resolved with no long lasting animosity.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:37)
Such as in the past when I approached Bast to ask her if she was mad at me for something.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:37)
Exactly. And it turned out it was entirely a misunderstanding. Like when you thought I said something I didn't. It was an easily explained away misunderstanding.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:38)
Ive been in vaxia two weeks...and ive seen countless of TGE's attacks, I saw AWAS attacking TGE, AWAS then attacked me, and two days later AWAS attacks me again.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:38)
And as for our experience - you DID say what I thought you said. You just 'didnt mean it that way because I copy pasted'

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:39)
No, you misquoted me in the one section of the message. Parts of it were true, but there was one part that you quoted me incorrectly. It's not a problem, but it did happen.

And we can still easily set up a mediation with Awas. Although I'm under the impression that he'll be surprised that you felt he was attacking you.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:40)
How do you misquote something when copy pasted straight from what the person wrote?

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:41)
I can look it up if you'd like. I dont' think that's the issue here, but we can visit it, if you'd like to.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:41)
Its not a concern at present. Its well in the past.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:44)
So the question now is, how do you want to proceed?

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:44)
What are my options?

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:45)
Whatever you'd like. No one's asking you to leave, no one's asking you to do anything you don't want to do.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:46)
I dont want to upset people anymore with things I dont say or imply :( I want the assumptions to stop.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:46)
Can you do the same for the others on the site?

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:46)
THat is a two way street.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:47)
I dont judge people by things they dont say or imply. I judge by things they DO say or imply. I dont add or remove words to things people say to suit myself.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:48)
Unfortunately that's not been entirely the case. You were exceedingly mad at AWAS's percieved rudeness in the forums when he didn't mean for that to be the case. In fact others commented on the fact that they didn't see it either.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:48)
One thing noone seems to understand is - you all know AWAS - most of you know him personally. Ive talked to him maybe 5 times in two weeks and two of those included attacks.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:48)
Of course other people who are USED TO a persons quirks arent going to see how other people who dont see things.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:49)
Where a stranger who doesnt know AWAS at all and was already attacked by him before will see aggressive wording as an attack - you and those who know AWAS like you do will just go 'thats just aWAS being AWAS'

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:49)
But as he stated, he wasn't actually attacking you. Whether we know him or not, if he'd been agressive he would get in trouble. Just like the other day.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:50)
The other day he only got in trouble because Zxe stepped in and told everyone to drop it - if she hadnt you all would have just shrugged and brushed it off.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:50)
We would have shrugged it off for all three of you though.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:50)
And as I stated myself here earlier - I dont know what AWAS posted in the forum after I left.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:51)
An explanation of what he meant. Nothing more than that, really.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:51)
No you wouldnt. TGE is a trouble maker you all are often upset with. And I am a guy that seems to always be drawing peoples ire.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:51)
Yes, but you keep bringing up what he said after I logged out of vaxia and left. I wouldnt know anything about that.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:52)
I haven't noticed you drawing any more ire than anyone else.

But before you say that he was hurting you, you should at least give him the chance to respond. Which he did. I wasn't saying anything more than there was a response to how you felt and what he meant.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:53)
Someone who goes into a coma will have no idea of what happens after they go into the coma. Same deal here.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:53)
Totally your choice. But please try not to hold onto the anger you feel toward him in that case.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:54)
I dont hold onto my anger - i lose trust in people who attack me unless they discuss it and matters are worked out.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:55)
That's good to do. That bodes well for mediation.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:55)
Thats what I did with you and bast because I wanted to work through our problems. Thats what I did with TGE.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:56)
Awas has also stated he wants to clear the air. So i think we're all on the same page there.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:56)
Again - I wouldnt know anything about what was said after I left.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:57)
That wasn't said online after you left. THat was said right while you were there when I asked him if he'd be willing to sit down with you.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:57)
Bast doesnt want to discuss it - so what are my options? Hide utterly from Bast and request that she never have anything to do with me or my characters anymore since its such a problem?

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:58)
Again, She has said nothing of the sort. She's not mad. No one has asked you to step away or limit your RP when she's involved.

685480407 (01.08.2014 20:59)
She has said nothing of the sort - she just stormed away and went offline saying clearly she cant have fun. She hasnt shown interest in wanting to discuss.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 20:59)
She is taking time to cool down, just as you left vaxia to do the same.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:01)
I left vaxia because I felt unwelcome after her action and response - and stayed off vaxia entirely when you told me the view of the eval staff.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:03)
I was attempting to explain the way that it seemed. They are all incredibly reasonable people who are masters of their emotions and OOC vs IC.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:04)
That certainly bodes well for Vaxia in the next few months.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:04)
What do you mean?

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:04)
Them being masters of their emotions, being reasonable people, and being masters of ooc vs ic.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:05)
Those are good traits.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:05)
Yes they are.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:09)
-nod-

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:19)
-itches his finger-

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:19)
What's up? Got the itchies?

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:19)
I itch when I get anxious...when I get stressed I get stomach and head aches and my forehead breaks out in dry skin...

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:20)
Yeah, it's that sort of sickly stressed feeling. it's not fun.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:20)
Yup.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:23)
One of these days the stress may just kill me.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:24)
I know that feeling. I tend to be the same. Some things don't bother me like they used to, but there's a reason that all my characters here avoid conflict. I don't find that stuff fun or relaxing in the least.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:25)
Me neither...though some of my characters jump in feet first to protect others.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:27)
Mine too. But yeah, I don't rp at the sparring grounds often cause I tend to like the talky bits better. That's why most of my sessions are super talky. Lol. Write what you like.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:33)
So, just for clarification so I can put it in the notes, you are willing to sit down with AWAS to work out this misunderstanding, correct?

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:52)
Yes. And with bast.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:52)
And the other eval people

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:53)
Alright. I'll set that up and let you know. I don't think the mediation will be as necessary with the eval people and bast. I don't think that was anything that is long lasting. The AWAS situation is more serious currently.

685480407 (01.08.2014 21:59)
Id rather be safe than sorry with the eval and Bast. I dont want anyone hating me.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 21:59)
No one hates you. Trust me. That isn't the case.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:00)
I dont want them to xD

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:00)
Yup. They definitely don't.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:00)
Hope they wont.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:01)
They don't.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:01)
Wont - future. Not saying they do presently.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:02)
Right, but that's literally the job of the department. To head off things like Player conflict. And I know them reasonably well. I can tell you that they really aren't the sorts to do that.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:02)
I hope not. Id cry.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:03)
Alright, I'm going to head to bed now. We can pick this up in the morning, if you'd like.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:03)
Sweet dreams...ill be around on ICQ if you need me.

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:04)
Can do. And I'll keep you in the loop. I'll be speaking to AWAS as soon as possible, and I'll let the other SH's know as well. They're much less likely to want/need mediation, but I'll let them know that you might want it anyway.

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:05)
-nod-

685480407 (01.08.2014 22:05)
Appreciated

Lady Kirsten (01.08.2014 22:05)
Alright. Goodnight! :)

The following day August 2nd (again in chronological order but split between the two threads):

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block Howzit going?

You Aug 2 Delete
It's going well. I'm going to set up the mediation thread shortly. After speaking somewhat with AWAS, he has a very strict work schedule coming up, so PM will be our only option. That will likely give us all chances to formulate and word our responses carefully. Which will be good. So I'll send that asap.

You Aug 2 Delete
I have sent the email. Be sure that for right now you don't have AWAS blocked, or else this won't work.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
I unblocked him after talking to you yesterday.

You Aug 2 Delete
Ok, then it's all set up and ready to proceed.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
Okee dokey.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
You relaxing any today?

(Switching to Mediation thread)

You Aug 2 Delete
This is a mediation between our two players awoundandscar66 and Sinsational. This mediation has been requested in order to hopefully clear up these issues and allow a constructive dialogue to take place about ways to prevent any conflict in the future. I (LadyKirsten) will be on hand to assist as needed, and these messages will be logged away as record of the proceedings.

Alright, so, most of the dialogue will be taking place between the two of you. I'll be here to help somewhat when needed. But in general, I am here to observe and keep things civil. So the two of you can discuss your feelings openly and constructively here. Hopefully we can get this all ironed out.

As stated to me, the conflicts between the two players are as follows:

Limbo comments between the following two posts:
http://vaxia.org/comment/108494#comment-108494
http://vaxia.org/comment/108549#comment-108549

And the forum thread here:
http://vaxia.org/forums/fight-club

Remember, this is the first step of many that we can take in order to help with this conflict. Hopefully this will also be the only one we need to take.

awoundandscar66 Aug 2 Delete Block
So, I'll just come out swinging, I suppose. I apologized. And I know there has been some thoughts of me being a "problem player" in your eyes, Sin. I just want to know, why you think that. What exactly, to each detail, did I do, to cause that sort of thought in you? Because from my perspective, I am doing literally nothing wrong. I apologized for my action because you misinterpreted what I said, and you did not even acknowledge it, to my knowledge. So tell me, what can I do to make this civil for you. Because I truthfully, don't know what I'm doing wrong, so please open my eyes to it.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
1) You were attacking TGE on Limbo for his character being the way the character is and when he started to show that he was being upset you told him you were only joking and he should relax. You were agressive with him in your tone and wording.

2) When I asked for more information about his character to clarify things that I did not understand you told me to drop it when I was only asking questions - instead of trying to be the least bit diplomatic or to see that I was only asking questions not attacking him in any way - you demanded I drop it in the same aggressive tone you used with him.

3) You asked a question on the forums - I gave my two cents - and while you responded to all of the SH's with respect and a neutral tone your tone to me was aggressive and spiteful and rather insulting.

4) After I told where my issue came in with you - I left the forums and shortly after got off Vaxia as a whole for a bit. I came back because my phone blipped that someone messaged me but I didnt bother going back to the forums to test and see if you were continuing your insults.

5) I didnt know you had appologized at all until LadyK told me late last night before she went to bed and at that time due to the issue with Bast that I had in Limbo I didnt even want to be on Vaxia at all. I had to ask LadyK to talk to me on ICQ because I couldnt stand to even be on Vaxia at all last night with the eval staff thinking im a jackass for having a screenshot of my character list.

What you fail to see is that what is said in text is toneless - when you are continually aggressive with people they see that aggressive tone in much of what you write.

Also you dont seem to see that - I dont know you. Nor do I pretend to. So while everyone else on Vaxia knows you personally and has talked to you in endless measure and know your personality - I do not.

I take all new people on a neutral tone until they prove otherwise.

I have been here two weeks and been attacked by you twice in a three day period (one of which was minutes after you attacked someone else).

So it isnt so much an misinterpretation but that your wording did not support a neutral medium especially since I only know you for being aggressive OOC.

Your friends and those who know you personally wouldnt see what I see because they know you and can laugh about it.

But I respond quite differently to people who are aggressive, insulting, or demeaning to me.

I ask them to leave me alone and I walk away like I did on limbo the other day and the way I did on the forums.

As far as my opinion of you - it doesnt really matter.

I am a newbie here - a valueless name in a swarming world of bits that will be forgotten in short enough time.

You however are a veteran here and your name will always be remembered by your friends.

Opinions do change if given enough reason to.

Feelings are like a garden and with enough care whats held within can die or prosper.

The fact that you point out that you only appologized because I misinterpreted it in your view makes the appology a rather void point in my view.

Thats like saying "Im sorry you are a jackass" - note I am not saying that to you I am using it as an example.

Your appology has an inclusion which makes it hold less of a value.

You arent sorry because you hurt me, you arent sorry because I was feeling insulted and attacked, you arent sorry because you did the things you did.

You are sorry because I misinterpreted.

You Aug 2 Delete
Gonna step in really quick, and say, AWAS, your tone in that first message does sound like you only apologized because of the misunderstanding, and not to clarify. So that's something to think about.

And Sin, on your list #5 really doesnt' have any bearing on your situation with AWAS now. That's a separate issue and your absence from the thread was already explained in your number 4 response. So that's also something to think about.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
@ LadyK, #5 was in response to AWAS stating that I didnt acknowledge the appology.

I left for a short time initially after the problem with AWAS.

Then I came back to have problems with Bast and the eval crew and left for the rest of the night and dint even bother to go to the forums until after you pointed it out.

So 5 actually is Valid :)

5 explains why I still didnt acknowledge it through the night.

You Aug 2 Delete
Listening to constructive feedback here is going to be worth a lot, Sin. After all, we're doing this mediation to discuss things with an open mind and not a combative stance. I understand you disagree with my statement. However as stated, it was only something to think about. It wasn't meant to cause you to respond to me, it was just to give you something to consider. However, to reiterate, you already explained that you'd left the thread in number four, you didn't need to explain again why you left Vaxia a second time that same day. Four explained the situation from AWAS's perspective and in regards to him completely.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
Im not being combative in the least.

You Aug 2 Delete
I didn't say that you were. I was merely reiterating that I had only meant it as something to think about, and not to respond to. That is all.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
As far as you not saying I was - "After all, we're doing this mediation to discuss things with an open mind and not a combative stance" <--- infers you do in fact view me as having a combative stance.

I came to request the mediation in the honest hope we can fix the problems between us and came to the PMs with an open mind and a willingness to hear things out...I dont like the idea of having enemies...

But...

1) AWAS says he only appologized because I was wrong in his view.
2) AWAS says he did nothing wrong in the first place so he doesnt see why anyone would be upset anyway.
3) LadyK says I am being combative for explaining my view neutrally and with a smile to try to be understood - and everything according to LadyK is my fault just like with Bast.

As AWAS is frequently at LadyK's and LadyK admits he has slept there - this is clearly becoming a conflict of interests at this point.

I showed no judgement, no argument, no negative nature or view but answered what I was asked and I was told by AWAS that everything is my fault and he is faultless and LadyK said I was combative by answering his questions.

AWAS spoke first and I responded in neutral terms to point out my views as requested.

As the mediator says I am combative and in the wrong as has been proven to be the norm - further mediation is pointless and nothing can be done.

I appreciate you both for your time and stating that everything is my fault and you both are faultless.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
"Because from my perspective, I am doing literally nothing wrong."

- the use of the word literally just like his frequent use of the word 'obviously' in the forum response where he attacked me make it just finger pointing on his part.

"I apologized for my action because you misinterpreted what I said, and you did not even acknowledge it, to my knowledge."

- AWAS clearly stated that he only appologized because I misinterpretted it but then followed in that I didnt acknowledge it and #5 pointed out PRECISELY why I hadnt yet acknowledged it. I had only just logged in for the first time since yesterday in full to message LadyK LITERALLY a half hour before she started this farce.

"What exactly, to each detail, did I do, to cause that sort of thought in you?"

- I answered in 4 notes about what happened.

(Continuing back over to the other thread)

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
Perhaps it was a bad idea to request your help with the mediation.

As it is becoming painfully clear that you support your friend regardless and I will always be viewed as being at fault for absolutely everything just like last night when I spoke to you about Bast.

And since you personally know him and he lives with you - it starts to appear to be a conflict of interests.

I explain my view with a smile and you instantly start saying im being combative.

You Aug 2 Delete
Completely understood. If you would like additional assistance or would like to pass this off, I will forward this onto the other SH's.

Although I know Awas off site, he does not live here, and I do not actually have a invested interest in this particular mediation. In fact, I have called in the others to get feedback to make sure that I am behaving accordingly in the past. I shall do so again with this situation. However, I can assure you that I made comments to both of you, about things to think about. There was no malice in my words nor was there one sided behavior on my part.

My response was not saying that you were being combative. It was saying that my involvement in the mediation is only there to keep the discussion civil and try and get a dialogue going so that differing points of view can be seen.

I was simply reiterating my point of view, but I am happy to step aside if you feel as though you can't be treated fairly during this mediation. However, I would again say, that I am not here to make any decisions, and nothing happens after this on my end of the discussion. I am not there to do anything but oversee. What the two of you decide amongst yourselves has literally nothing to do with me. All you are doing is trying to decide how you move forward between the two of you.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
Your response clearly stated that I had a combative stance instead of an open mind.

Just like when I asked about why Bast was mad and you said it was my fault for her assuming things I never said or inferred.

It is becoming a rather common response from you.

You Aug 2 Delete
Understood. I shall forward your concerns onto the other SHs. Hopefully you will find better answers and clarification from them.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
You mean 'Maddy', right?

Since Bast hates me and Zxe doesnt talk to me anyway?

(I believe chronologically this is where Sinsational asked for a nonbiased mediator in limbo. However I believe those messages have already been easily linked previously)

(And once more back to the mediation thread where AWAS responded)

awoundandscar66 Aug 2 Delete Block
Sin, you're right. I'll do my absolute best to use my words in a different way. I do not want you to think I am attacking you, because I'm not. and I apologize for speaking in such a way. I'm not sorry because you misinterpreted, I am sorry because I screwed up. I shouldn't have been so abrasive and I am sorry that I have been being a player you dislike in games such as this.

I will leave you alone for now, so I do not further cause these issues, because I want Vaxia to be fun for us both. I will do my best to watch my tone when I say things in text, because I forget it is toneless most times. I will not be so aggressive in the future and will give us time to push this into the past and hopefully reconnect at least as civil RPers. I am sorry for causing such a dilemma, and I'm sorry I had to make this a social issue, so to you Lady K, I also apologize. I do not know if you will accept this, or if you want to try to be civil again. But for now, I will leave you be, and so I can no longer cause you issues. Maybe I'll see you IC or in sessions, but I'll leave you to yourself OOC.

Sinsational Aug 2 Delete Block
Thats all I asked - AWAS.

Most of it is that I dont know you in the least - I dont know your personality yet.

So when you were harrassing TGE about his character it set in my mind that that was normal for you and then you jumped on me when I asked about the character to TGE on things I was unclear on.

Then when the forums happened I knew about your abrasive approach to things and took your words for face value not in the knowledge that your friends have of you from knowing you.

Lets start with a clean slate - IC, OOC, and otherwise.

admin
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In light of the current

Admin note: In light of the current grievance in progress I will be returning the funds donated to Vaxia to eliminate that potential source of conflict of interest given that the donations are fairly recent, and came up in the course of conversations.

Boblet
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.

Bast Translation: I am not mad at anyone or pissed off at anyone. This is for site safety and to remove one possible thing that could cause further conflict. And if you think I'm mad or pissed off, then you are totally wrong.

Bastlynn
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Yeah, that pretty much. ;)

Yeah, that pretty much. ;) Keeps things clean / above board.

Sinsational
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Further conflict?

I certainly dont want further conflict.

I would love if I could get a second chance.

I didnt at all intend to hurt or upset anyone.

I can change - I can work on my issues.

All I ask is a chance not to be cut loose and be disposed of like the floaties in the truck stop bathroom - I can do better.

Tanya
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An additional log

I've been poking around the site all day. (Yay! Days off!) And Sinsational seems to be thinking that we're going to kick him regardless of the outcome of this grievance. As per his statement in Limbo today.

http://vaxia.org/comment/111997#comment-111997

Also, Sin, I am pointing out to you that this isn't the comment time of this process. That will come in it's due time and through the proper process that the grievance is supposed to be handled. Right now it is still in information gathering mode. If were a court proceeding and there were a judge in this proceedings, you would have been asked to remain silent until it is your turn to speak.

Bastlynn
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Tanya's got a point here -

Tanya's got a point here - please give us the chance to get all the data in, confirm it, and then we can start getting down to looking at what happened to get things to this point and what the person or persons involved will be asked by the site as a whole to do to resolve the situation.

Boblet
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full sarcasm mode Yes Sin, we are all out to get you. You are after all the last remaining human. Don't you know, the rest of us are all actually A.I. Currently we are cross referencing your information to find your real world equivalent so that we can hunt you down and "ban" you from Vaxia. sarcasm mode off...mostly

How the bloody hell did you get "we are going to ban you" from that? Are you paranoid or something?

Sit back, take a really deep breath.

Then, take another.

Further conflicts=any POSSIBLE (which is to say NOT definite) future problems. I have further conflicts, Lady K has further conflicts, GE has further conflicts, etc etc. Everybody has further conflicts. If we didn't, then we truly would not be human. This particular case of further conflict is naught but a supposition made for example purposes. It's not all about you. But hey, if you want to feel that it is and that I'm out to get you, go for it. Whatever helps you sleep at night. On an aggravation scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the worst. You rate about about a 1 right now, to me. Which is at about the same level is an itchy butt. Nothing more than a guy with a small caliber gun shooting Godzilla in the ass. Itchy, but not ban-able.

Tanya
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Boblet...

Down boy! What I said about the time for when comments will be appropriate includes you.

Boblet
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.

mumbles and scratches himself from the conversation

admin
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Admin note:

Admin note:

The logs presented to date are publicly available, have independent points of verification from multiple witnesses, or have been verified by checking in the database to make sure content is as presented. Offsite logs were put into DB or linked from sources that have content-revision features prior to Grievance being filed.

Near as I can tell, there seems to be no tampering in logs presented so far - save for minor cropping issues in the image-files. The information for those conversations has been presented from all three participants, so in my opinion we have a good view on those conversations.

Since we don't want this whole thing to drag on forever, I'm going to move for closing out the information gathering stage by 6PM EST - if I can get a second and third from the thread on that? Or if anyone wants to counter and ask for more time to gather logs before we move forward please speak up.

Sinsational
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Second...

...dont want to be continually dreading for extended periods what tomarrow holds...

Madius
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Agreed, unless anyone objects

Seems like we've gathered all the relevant data at this point.

Tanya
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Yay

In case we need a third to get it going... I'll agree to get this going.

admin
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Admin note:

Admin note:

Ok, just to herd the cats here so we can keep things vaguely orbiting the point of doing a grievance like this... unless anyone objects (we can formalize some of these steps later). Here's what I'm thinking our next steps are, assuming step 1 was gather and verify all data:

Step 2 is answering the specific question(s) of the anon mailer.

Step 3 is making suggestions to resolve the issue(s) associated with this to prevent a reoccurrence of the circumstances that resulted in the mailer.

We are now in Stage 2 of this process:

Please sound off on the question posed by the initial mailer, based ONLY on the provided information in this thread. Per Gov, everyone can sound off, but I am asking for posts at this point that stay focused on answering this question. We'll address any surrounding circumstances and actions to take if any in Step 3.

The purpose of the social department is as follows:

Social: The social department is responsible for maintaining the health of the community of vaxia.org. This includes moderation duties, interpersonal conflict resolution, communication assistance, helping newbies, creating and maintaining site and newbie tutorials and running community activities. In addition, the social department may act as a neutral party in disputes, assuming the social department itself is not in conflict of interest.

The key question we have from the anon mailer:

"Has LadyKirsten failed to fulfill her duties within an acceptable range of performance as a Social Lead over the course of this situation?"

Edited: to include the definition of the social department's mission for easy reference.

Sinsational
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Step 2:

Do I believe ladyk failed to do her duty? No. LadyK made all possible effort to arrange it and did make effort to mediate. She arranged it and brought AwAs into the PMs and in the end awas did appologize for hurting me so in a roundabout way she did succeed in mediation.

AWAS appologized and seemed to mean it in the PM.

LadyK and tanya suggested I speak to someone else if needed and I went to madius after tanyas suggestion of good people to talk to.

I accepted the appology from AWAS and offered to start fresh and through the convo with madius found some points I can improve of myself.

Did LadyK fail in performing her SOCIAL duties? No.

admin
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Just in case - as I know we

Just in case - as I know we probably have some new people on this, or people who haven't looked over the site gov. The purpose of the social department is as follows:

Social: The social department is responsible for maintaining the health of the community of vaxia.org. This includes moderation duties, interpersonal conflict resolution, communication assistance, helping newbies, creating and maintaining site and newbie tutorials and running community activities. In addition, the social department may act as a neutral party in disputes, assuming the social department itself is not in conflict of interest.

Her duties as a Social lead do include maintaining her ability to act as a neutral party in disputes - based on that are you sticking by that answer?

Sinsational
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well...

I do not myself belive that IF she showed bias in the course of this that she did so malicious or with purpose driving her. IF she did such it wasnt an intentional action out of spite or hate.

Do I think she failed? No.

I think she may have POSSIBLY slipped out of aggravation or stress or tiredness as behind the keyboard of each of us is a human being who can make mistakes.

I think ladyk does try her best at what she does in vaxia - and if she slipped at the very least it was towards me :)

I think she does deserve her position as in IM discussions with her I saw how passionate she is for what she does.

Bastlynn
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Passion and good intent have

Passion and good intent have absolutely nothing to do being competent at the job. The question isn't IF she showed bias out of malicious intent, the question is DID she show bias?

And my answer to that is no, she didn't.

As far as I can tell on review, LadyK's kept her personal views out of her interactions as a Social lead. She's been accurate in her assessments of those involved. If anything, she may have been too lenient early on given the rapid acceleration of problems and growing intensity - but the gentle-start approach has worked quite well with all other cases so far, so this may be an outlier case.

In my opinion she has not failed to fulfill her duties.

Madius
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Concur

I've been over these logs twice, and I can't find anything to suggest LadyK spoke from or acted out of bias at all.

Zxehenia
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Agreed

I can see no evidence of bias or misconduct by Ladyk.
There was no failure on her part to fulfill her duties.

TheGodEmperor
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Aye

I do not see anything that could be seen as bias from LadyK.

I would also like to mention something I've noticed in the logs.

Sin, you are continually bringing up the situation between me and AWAS and I would like to request that you stop. If I had a problem with AWAS and was upset I would have brought it up with proper people and asked for mediation. But he an I talked and were done with that situation minutes after the comment was made to change the subject in limbo. The fact that you keep bringing it up makes me think that your dislike for AWAS is based on some misplaced attempt to defend me when I never asked, or wanted, you to do so.

ChordOrgan
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Everyone wiggle your arms!

Now, roll your neck.

Take some long, deep breaths.

. . . Think about the inconceivable vastness of outer space.

Everyone's gonna be OK. I don't mean to imply that this isn't a serious matter, as it is a serious matter. This is a place where we are all supposed to have fun and feel comfortable and welcome. It's our responsibility to each other to keep that in mind and take care of everyone here. To Sin in particular, I don't harbor ill will to you. You're a good RPer and while I can not claim to really know you, I do not believe you have had malicious intentions. I have some additional words specifically for you in my conclusions.

A note about my bias in this: I am Kirsten's husband. I'm going to go through this point by point to explain my thinking and in doing so, I believe I'll convey why I think why my thoughts would be consistent in the absence of my undeniable bias. Let's go through the quotes in the original Mailer's post.

""[. . .] instantly of a view during mediation to say everything is my fault right off the bat?"
We can see Kirsten opens the discussion with This:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
This is a mediation between our two players awoundandscar66 and Sinsational. This mediation has been requested in order to hopefully clear up these issues and allow a constructive dialogue to take place about ways to prevent any conflict in the future. I (LadyKirsten) will be on hand to assist as needed, and these messages will be logged away as record of the proceedings.

Alright, so, most of the dialogue will be taking place between the two of you. I'll be here to help somewhat when needed. But in general, I am here to observe and keep things civil. So the two of you can discuss your feelings openly and constructively here. Hopefully we can get this all ironed out.

As stated to me, the conflicts between the two players are as follows:

Limbo comments between the following two posts:
http://vaxia.org/comment/108494#comment-108494
http://vaxia.org/comment/108549#comment-108549

And the forum thread here:
http://vaxia.org/forums/fight-club

Remember, this is the first step of many that we can take in order to help with this conflict. Hopefully this will also be the only one we need to take.


It's a neutral and dry explanation of the reason the mediation is taking place. Comments are made by both aWaS and Sin. Kirsten inputs with a note for each here:
Spoiler: Highlight to view
Gonna step in really quick, and say, AWAS, your tone in that first message does sound like you only apologized because of the misunderstanding, and not to clarify. So that's something to think about.

And Sin, on your list #5 really doesnt' have any bearing on your situation with AWAS now. That's a separate issue and your absence from the thread was already explained in your number 4 response. So that's also something to think about.


In short, she informs aWaS that his apology had a qualifier on it and she informs Sin that one of his many points wasn't relevant to the mediation. The note to aWaS seemed like the "heavier" comment. Honestly, this seemed like an attempt at proving her lack of bias by giving aWaS more course-correction than Sin. To be clear, her note to aWaS is true and it was a pitch-perfect thing to say to him. To Sin, she seems to almost go easy on him in order to keep him from feeling attacked. I found much more of Sin's initial posting to be a distraction (particularly towards the end) and if I was in her position I would have made a wider request for Sin to stay on topic. Sin then gets clearly combative about how not combative he is, ignoring Kirsten explaining "It wasn't meant to cause you to respond to me, it was just to give you something to consider." and " I had only meant it as something to think about, and not to respond to. That is all." She continues to point out that she never claimed that he was being combative (I think this was a mistake on her part, as I believe he was indeed being combative. Whatever, sometimes we all get a little combative.) Regardless, shortly afterwards Sin says "As the mediator says I am combative and in the wrong". This is the first explicit indication that Sin thinks Kirsten is laying the blame on him, as echoed by the Limbo quote that the Mailer highlighted. So, presumably we are past the "right off the bat" point from that quote. I do not even know what to point to in Kirsten's words in the mediation in regards to the Limbo claim of her saying that "everything is my fault right off the bat?". She doesn't even APPROACH the topic of blame. The assertion that she was immediately laying blame at Sin's feet is, to me, clearly false.

Ok, that got long winded and side-tracked. My apologies. In fact I unintentionally provided my response to the next Mailer quote:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
"[. . .] she pointed out it was my fault and accused me of being combative when I wasnt."

She did in fact, not even approach the subject of fault, specifically clarified that she wasn't calling Sin combative. . . As for the last three words of the Mailer quote, ironically it appears he WAS being combative. I don't really fault Kirsten for not calling Sin out on his combative tone, as I think she was trying to turn the focus away from herself, but yeah. . . he was being combative.

Next Mailer quote:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
"I wasnt being at all combative - [the mediator] is always accusing me of being wrong and combattive and being the cause with every issue.

I answered [the other party in the mediation's] questions on the mediation honestly, neutrally, and with an open mind and [the mediator] accused me of the exact opposite[. . .]

[. . .]the mediator in question shows no capacity for neutrality in the mediation. One post into the mediation and she is instantly all "its all your fault and you are being aggressive.

Just like my problem with [another player] the other day - I asked [the mediator] about it and her answer was "Its all your fault, you said this." when my post was 'sends his characters to help Zxe with her work' not 'the eval department are lazy assholes who never do shit' - which is what I was told the eval department were saying I said."


Ok, we've already touched on that first part. As for the second part, Kirsten never seems to take issue with the relevant content of Sin's posts, only implying that he wasn't open minded about the notes she was giving him as mediator, something I believe she was right to do as he was actively rejecting her input (which was only for his consideration, anyway). Next is the question of neutrality, laying fault (already touched upon) and the word "aggressive" looks to be a stand-in for "combative" (already touched upon). So, regarding neutrality, this is the BIG ONE!

In the end, I think LadyKirsten has let bias affect her subtly, but not at all in the way Sin claims. Rather, she seemed to make a concerted effort to go easy on Sin in order to dispel the notion of favorable bias towards aWaS. That said, I sincerely doubt she would let this reactive counter-bias affect any serious decision-making and is more than capable in her position. I still have ZERO idea why Sin seems to think she had it out for him.

The last part of the mailer quotes is getting little attention, but I actually think it's a pretty serious claim: "Just like my problem with [another player] the other day - I asked [the mediator] about it and her answer was "Its all your fault, you said this." when my post was 'sends his characters to help Zxe with her work' not 'the eval department are lazy assholes who never do shit' - which is what I was told the eval department were saying I said."

Essentially, this looks to be a claim that Kirsten is telling Sin that others are against him. The only relevant posts I could find were showing the exact opposite: "She doesn't hate you. In fact she's said quite the opposite." When Sin suggests this is a lie, Kirsten stays firm: "Also, let me clarify, I never ever lie. Not at all. So when I say she has told me that in no uncertain terms I mean it." Regarding the SHs as a collective, Kirsten again only says the exact opposite: "I don't think that anyone's getting mad. I think this might be boiling down to perspective somewhat. Where you see someone attacking you, they might not see it that way." The root of this part of the Mailer's quote seems surprisingly clear to me. Mind you, this is somewhat speculative, but again, it seems clear to me. Sin seemed to be projecting his feared hatred from the others onto Kirsten's responses. He is worried that others hated him, so by golly that's what he was hearing.

----------------------------------CONCLUSIONS----------------------------------

To answer the first part of the Mailer's question: No, Kirsten didn't do "an extraordinarily poor job". She kept incredibly calm under pressure, stayed consistent and did everything she could to keep everyone happy. Ironically, the only fault I perceive was her being a bit soft on Sin.

To answer the second part of the Mailer's question. I'm not sure that Sin is intentionally lying and am leaning more towards the somewhat harshly worded "warped sense of reality". I wanna close this long post out with what I think is the criminally ignored starting point of this whole thing. Sin's distrust of LadyK seems to have sparked when he thought Kirsten was telling him that he shouldn't try to make things that don't already exist (in regards to character creation). I think this misunderstanding stemmed from Kirsten saying "but you will probably want to talk to setting about exactly what those weapons look like now that some changes to the wiki have been made. So make sure those weapons exist and are attainable before spending points on the skills to use them."

Ok, so Sin misunderstood and didn't realize Kirsten meant that Sin and setting could make those things exist. That's fine. We all experience misunderstandings. But Kirsten clearly explained herself.

To the accusation we can see that Kirsten said "Just because something doesn't exist yet though, doesn't mean that it can't be made. That's exactly what we have a setting department for.

And believe me, it would never be a waste of our time. Sami rocks and so do you. :) We want you to have fun, and we will do anything in our power to do so."

Sin, dude. You gotta do some self evaluation. You are looking for enemies in potential friends. It is a sincere and real hope of mine that you can correct this in yourself and find more happiness as a result. I really do wish you the best of luck in that.

Tanya
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My two cents

I see that LadyK has fulfilled her duties as required to the best of her ability. Showing neither party any bias during the mediation or even before or after.

I feel that this whole thing has been an attempt for Sinsational to get what he wants... Which he has not stated at all in clear and definite terms of what it is that he wants, as a result of the mediation. He is having a temper tantrum because of something that he thought that he saw as an attack on himself and his vain attempt at defending another player when it was not required, nor desired as it has been stated above. In the forums I never saw anything that was meant as rude or malicious or snide or anything else but stating that AWAS knew what it was that was required of his idea. He was asking for input on how to go about such an event.

As for the postings in Limbo about Sinsational thinking that he's going to be removed from the site, if you so feel that we're all going to do nothing but vote you off the site, then I have to ask, why are you still here? If you think that we're all here to do nothing but attack you just to have some excuse to remove you, then why are you still here?

Sinsational
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Chord...

As I have said, after talking to Madius in PM I was granted a great deal of outside view and came to realize the other intention. He showed me what intentions were based on the wording and how he percieved it - and after looking at it and seeing his view I could understand it.

I have admitted and appologized for my faults in the matters of the last few weeks that Madius, Zxe, and Boblet have all helped me to see and I do intend to work to fix myself and to start to look at peoples approaches in a different light.

I was aggravated and highly stressed at the time which was spurred all the more by other events both on and off Vaxia not just the AWAS event...

After the convo with Madius I was able to start looking back at past events since I joined here and see my own faults, flaws, and mistakes and started to think over ways to fix them.

I do not wish for anything like this to happen again - I really dont like the idea of people being mad at me like this.

I by no means wanted LadyK to be put to question for my view which at the time was what I saw but the clarity provided by Madius happened after I posted in limbo asking if there was anyone I could talk to.

LadyK is a wonderous person and very kind hearted and understanding - and I wouldnt have that any other way.

The same goes with the problems I saw with Bast - what I saw was different than what would have been seen by looking at it from outside the box.

And I am rather sure that AWAS is a good guy if I just got to know him better.

I felt attacked by a few small events, went on the defensive, and turtled up expecting attacks to come from any direction and from other people.

I am the first to admit when I was wrong - and I was wrong with many of my views which Madius and Boblet helped me to see for which I am greatly appreciative.

I do hope to improve and work on my flaws if I am given a chance.

Sinsational
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Tanya

As ive said - I THOUGHT I was going to be removed based on a lack of understanding on the events that took place involving my donation - I didnt understand the intention behind it and as I was already defensive I saw the worst case scenario. But again Boblet came forward in PM to help me better understand it.

I dont WANT to be removed. I love rp and love what vaxia stands for.

And I dont WANT anything from anyone short of rp.

As I have said several times - I made a series mistakes and I honestly appologize for it to all who were involved or hurt by my words or actions.

LadyKirsten
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My take...

I've wanted to stay out of this and keep my opinions to myself. Unfortunately I can't actually answer "Has LadyKirsten failed to fulfill her duties within an acceptable range of performance as a Social Lead over the course of this situation?" So I hope that my opinion and feeling about the situation can still be counted in the discussion.

It deeply bothers me to think that someone took the things I said to mean such hurtful things. I have read and reread the logs over and over again to try and see where I made mistakes and where I said such malicious things. I would like to stress that at no point did I personally feel as though I was biased. I tried to be fair during my interactions. I take my position very seriously. There have been times where I've wanted to stand up and say "No. Stop. That's incorrect." But I haven't. Because even when I feel personally hurt, I have to stay neutral. That's literally my job. It's harder than it seems sometimes especially when I've been called into question.

I will admit that I have been hurt by these accusations. However, any hint of misconduct is something that we should take very seriously as a site. If I had said those things, I would voluntarily recuse myself in a second. But the fact of the matter is that I didn't.

awoundandscar66
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.

I wish not to enter a discussion, but rather to just say that: No. I don't believe after revision of everything that Lady K has failed.

I agree with Lady K's statements above. I do not believe there was a single moment where she did anything she wasn't supposed to. I'll even take it a step further and say it's quite the opposite. I think Lady K does a great job. She stayed neutral, and she gave both parties in the mediation things to think about. That's my two cents. Let me know when step 3 is upon us.

admin
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Admin note:

Admin note:

So far that seems to be 8 on the "No misconduct" opinion, and 1 uncommitted answer. That is a remarkably clear trend line.

In the interests of prompt resolution so we can get back to 'normal', I move to get to Step 3 - aka how to avoid this in the future by 6pm EST today. I would like a second and third on that, and of course if anyone would like to have more time to gather thoughts please speak up! We will gladly wait a little bit to give you time to get your thoughts in.

Sinsational
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Second...

Ill second again...

Bastlynn
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At this stage I have another

At this stage I have another thing to point out for us to consider as we look at step three...

To close out a grievance requires putting together a formal proposal with a two week voting window. This is so that we don't end up dealing with something as incredibly important as properly handling a Grievance without providing all the protections that come with a proposal.

Proposals are anonymous so no one will feel group pressure on their votes, the two week window is to provide time for a voter to change their mind, there's also anti-tampering features and the like.... and a Grievance is really important. It's one of the only tools the site has to defend against poor leadership. I would feel really uncomfortable with the idea that sometimes we use a proposal to close a Grievance and sometimes we don't. That just seems to be a point of possible corruption. So, I really feel it's a step we must do to close this out.

The problem is this: It's still a two week window and in some situations that's two weeks too many. The uncertainty can be very uncomfortable to live with.

My suggestion is to take the results of the voice-vote here in the thread and any popular recommended actions as an unconfirmed decision. We can act on the suggestions with the understanding that no permanent actions will take place until the vote is in. Permanent actions like stripping a user of a role, bans, or the like would wait until we have the results of the proposal. If the vote results are different than the unconfirmed results, we can make efforts at that point to adjust - we already have a system in place for reviewing decisions made while under the proposal window.

We can (and should) formalize this process in an amendment afterwards - but, I think that's probably the best way for us at the moment to balance between that need for a formal answer and the individual need for a prompt answer. Thoughts?

Madius
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Thirded and Seconded

I'm all for moving to step 3, unless anyone objects.

And yeah - for logistics sake, I think having the two-week window official decision still allow for a tentative decision provided no permanent action is taken - just suggestions on changes in behavior or increased scrutiny over a position or SH in question, etc. And yeah, we should make that official when all this is done, if the site wants it.

Sinsational
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4 years 1 week ago
I agree...

...it sounds like the site guinea pig gets to test out a new legislation idea xD

I say lets do as bast suggests.

admin
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Technical Admin
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1 week 2 days ago
Admin note:

Admin note:

Ok, stage three....

We are now in Stage 3 of this process:

this is the "what do we do about this so we don't have this continue to be an issue" part of the process. We're gonna collect options, get them into the proposal and basically figure out what needs to be done to prevent this sort of mailer from getting sent again.

Madius
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MediatorNewbie HelperSetting Department MemberSystem Department MemberStoryhostSite Lead
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1 week 2 days ago
Suggestions

Naturally, this is just me as a player, but here are my suggestions.

[TL;DR version: let Social crowdsource, make some apologies, make it clear from the start when you're joking, and trust Social to do their job]

1. LadyK didn't do anything wrongful here that I can see, but I also don't want our solo Social lead having to bear the brunt of every mediation case in the future - it's not healthy, in my opinion. If it's not already the case, can we empower the Social lead to nominate a player who's passed the social walkthrough to act as a mediator, provided the Social lead is able to give oversight? Or possibly make all Social department members able to act as mediators provided they give documentation to the lead for oversight?

That may mean beefing up the walkthrough or adding a new one specifically for mediation, but basically give Social the strength and diversity of a whole department to help with issues like this in the future, as a fleet who can spread it around a little and keep anyone from getting targeted or overloaded. We already crowdsource a lot of System and Setting, I don't see why Social should be any different in that aspect, provided the rules about transparency are maintained.

2. On the specific issue at hand, I think there may still need to be some apologies to be tendered in all this :-/ It sounds like AWAS has apologized in earnest to Sin, and GE can weigh in on whether he feels an apology is still merited from him for the original remarks in Limbo that spawned all this.

Personally, I think Sin owes GE an apology for acting in his defense without his permission, if one hasn't been given. That act, while I could see some viewing it as noble, I know I wouldn't want done for me, especially by someone who had been party to the original punching-down in Limbo :-/ I'll let GE weigh in on that, though.

Lastly, I think Sin owes LadyK and Bastlynn an apology apiece, if one hasn't already been tendered, for statements made about their behavior and attitudes that I personally don't see corroborated by these logs. Even if it was based on lack of perspective rather than malice, it still amounts to putting words in their mouths and speaking to their intentions and motives without knowledge thereof, which is hurtful pretty much any time you do it. Like with the stated defense of GE, the effect here makes the intention moot - damage was done, and I think that merits an apology.

3. Finally, as is part of any good apology, I think a commitment to avoiding similar behavior in the future is necessary. AWAS, going back to the original comments, I think should take care to make clear when he is teasing in good humor and be ready to simply let such remarks go unstated if the other party is not keen on his brand of humor at the time. Sin, in my opinion, needs to show more deference toward LadyK in her role as Social lead and respect her perspective, rather than dismissing it and trying to take matters into his own hands.

I also feel Sin needs to make an effort to respond to moments where someone is hurt by something he said by a) understanding what action he took to cause harm, b) apologizing before (and often instead of) explaining and defending himself, and c) making a commitment to avoid similar situations in the future, rather than escalating or cycling on the same matter with further clarifications and defenses. I also feel he should leave mediation and the defense of any player to the Social department, whom the site nominated to handle exactly this sort of thing. Reporting an incident like what was said in Limbo originally rather than trying to handle it directly without the proper training could have avoided the entire original situation easily, and I would suggest going that route for any future incidents he witnesses.

That's my take. Thoughts?

Tanya
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3 months 1 week ago
My Two Cents

I totally agree with Maddy's suggestions. I have nothing further to add on that part.

Sinsational
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Last online
4 years 1 week ago
I agree with madius also...

Certainly understandable requests.

I had made effort prior to the grievance being posted to talk to ladyk and bast but the only hope I had of my words being seen at all were here which I appologized as my second post and the words are still true today.

I had not known the tge felt my stepping in was a negative until he posted here - as he never said anything - though I did appologize in pm the day after the event and he told me I had nothing to appologize for as he wasnt upset.

I know it will take time for the wounds I caused to heal but I am still sorry.

Zxehenia
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1 day 3 hours ago
.

1) My first suggestion follows Maddy's, I was going to suggest that in the future no mediation happens with a single mediator. Two should be present, though in order to keep people involved from feeling overwhelmed, one of the mediators may do all the 'talking', the second one would be there to watch and step in should we have similar problems arise. Having a mediator nominated and then the social lead overseeing the process would satisfy my idea as well, so I throw my hat in with his suggestion.

2) Make less assumptions and less jumping to conclusions.
It has come up often, not in just this case, that a misunderstanding has arisen as someone made an assumption or jumped to a conclusion rather then just asking. Hence we get a lot of "well this would have never happened if the person just asked". This is an unacceptable excuse.

How could TGE say anything about defending him if he didn't see the private conversations until now? None of this happened in a public chat so TGE did not have the chance offer his input on the matter. In the future I would suggest before you jump to conclusions to ask for clarification from everyone involved.

Now this goes for -anyone-, for as mentioned, this comes up a lot more then we think. If you find yourself making an assumption about something someone said, or jumping to a conclusion (especially if they are negative) - before you act upon this and making a really huge mess - go ask someone for a second opinion. If that isn't working so well, or you can't find someone to give a second opinion, politely ask the someone that said something in pms for some clarification.

IF you want people to not just jump to conclusions or make assumptions on what you said and ask you for clarification, you need to do the same for others as well. It is a two way street.

3) I would likely also recommend for social that should a situation become a focus in mediation and it involves a player that is not involved in the mediation, to drop a line to that player make sure they are ok and see if that situation has bothered them or if it has been resolved.

4) Maddy has already covered the apology parts, so I will not parrot that but rather state my support of it.

In conclusion, I have seen a lot of apologizing in this thread, but also those snippets of jumping to conclusions again.

TBH at this point it is going to be the matter of actions are louder then words.

Show us, plain and simple. Work with us.

Are problems going to arise? Hell yes they are. We are human beings, least last I checked. And we have quite the range of personalities between us. Not all of those personalities are going to fit together all snug like puzzle pieces, we are going to have friction and rough edges, but its nothing we can't work through if people are willing to step back and communicate.

It is like I tell my raiders, I don't expect you all to become very good friends, but I DO expect you to have respect for one another and attempt to be civil.

Sometimes we just have to accept each other's differences and take an extra minute to make sure we all savvy rather then biting each other's heads off like horny praying mantis'.

We have a responsibility to keep the community of the site healthy, and also to mind the health of the individual players.

We want everyone here to be able to log in, have some fun, meet new people. But there are some people this site is not healthy for, and vice versa. And no, we don't like automatically jump to ban anyone (notable exceptions like those that break laws). Instead we try to work with you, figure out your quirks and see if there is any way to help you enjoy the site. But if it comes down to it, we will do what we gotta do to maintain the health of the site and the people, and that takes just as much work from the people who are involved to make sure we do not come to that point.

ChordOrgan
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1 year 7 months ago
MICRO RESPONSE

MICRO RESPONSE

Sin, I think you've been making nice apologies and then sabotaging them. You say you apologized to Kirsten and Bastlynn in your second post. This is true. In the same post you then go on to say: "When I post something and it isassumed I said something I didnt - did bast pm me to ask me about it? No she flipped out in limbo saying she apparently cant have any fun and ignored me after.

When ladyk told me straight up that things that aren't preexisting cant be requested or created - did I flip shit in limbo? No, I continued to talk to her in pm about it until she explained what she ACTUALLY meant and she explained she misworded it and copy pasted so the tone was worse than intended."

It's difficult for someone to feel like your apologies are genuine when you then go on to say something like "but they screwed up too!". This really gives the impression that you are apologizing merely because you know you're "in trouble." You explaining the particulars of your interactions with TGE in your last post feel similarly unneeded.

Those are my thoughts. Do with them as you will.

MACRO RESPONSE

So, Madius did indeed hit most of the points. The one additional thing that deserves mention is our strike policy as was being discussed here: http://vaxia.org/forums/our-strike-policy

First off, strikes are to be handled as privately as possible amongst Social and the relevant parties, so I'm not suggesting we dive into how it applies to this situation here in this forum. The strike policy is intended to ensure that everyone gets equal treatment. A senior and well-liked player should get the same treatment as an unknown and nobody should get off easy or get unduly harsh treatment because the site is in a particular mood. It's about having a standard, and it ought to be applied to this situation appropriately by Social (Kirsten being well aware of her need to delegate in this situation).

Maybe this was going without saying, but I figured I'd play it safe and say it anyway.

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