Summoned companions

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savi0r117
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Summoned companions

So i was thinking during a session that we were doing today, that summoned companions take a little extra work to use. What i mean is that you guys went through the trouble to add in a dice roll for companions that players permanently own. Where the problem is, is that this ends up causing us to default back to the old way of adding the dice in to our own rolls and the Sh handling the actual mights on their own end.

What i was thinking was put in a tier system for summoned familiers. Based on the rolls and mights you would have creatures with mights ranging from 10-100 in 10 level intervals, or maybe 0-100 with 20 level intervals to reduce clutter (25-100 with 25 intervals if you want to make it more so) Then offer these to any character with the ability to summon. It wouldn't really be intrusive, as the thing to roll for companions is small and normally unoticable if you arent using one ever. (though it may not be there, don't remember off hand.)

That way say someone wanted to command a summoned creature and also hit someone, they would run out of room to add rolls in specifically and still have to specify to the SH with OOC chat, saying roll 2 or whatever (IE rolling two dice in the same stat on the same line) is for the summoned creature.

Just a thought, and couldn't quite tell where I needed to post about this stuff, so i hope this isnt the wrong spot. If so my bad.
-Sav

Bastlynn
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It's not a bad idea - all the

It's not a bad idea - all the UI changes we make are trying to streamline the ruling process for SHs so all the numbers get out of the way. :)

We might be able to set up a default summoned companion in the item shop as a lifestyle (free) item so they can be easily picked up by summoners. Zxe? Does that sound semi-reasonable / sane as a way to smooth this bit out?

Zxehenia
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Summoned companions are always going to be a little bit of extra work, as there isn't just their mights to considered, they also have varying skills etc (as not all summoners will summon for the same goals to be had out of a pet)

A summoned companion is basically a gamble on what you get vs a perma companion where you control what you have.
Though often a SH is likely to pull from the bank of premade critter npcs we have (its on a list somewhere to have a general pp to what group npcs to pick from and get those up as actual npcs)

In that regards the quickest way to streamline that is to just have the SH roll on the chosen NPC sheet and use the buttons there.
Though I do have some concerns there, especially for the potential of trying to game the system by taking the 'free' 'summoned' creature and trying to play it off as a purchased one.

The stats given shouldn't exceed the 150 point spread - aka it follows the same rules as the purchased one (The most generic one would be like putting 10 in all the stats and then 3 skills at 25 - one to represent magic, physical, and other, its still short 5 points but should activate the roller at least) but that does take away some of the randomness/and still means SHs will have to input numbers (just the player gets to use the companion roller and SH use the trait buttons.)

I don't know how hard it would be, but imo the likely solution for the request and intention of getting all of the numbers out of the way, is if we had a temp item store that SH's could insta award items to a PC for the time needed.
It does mean the SH when the item expires would have to make sure it is removed from the sheet (but we can also make sure this shows up in the log so people can double check etc.)

- To put an item in this store is the same - still has to go through the item approval process
- Cuts out the needing another SH to approve when awarding an item
- If the item is modify should still go through process as only the version in the store is approved for immediate use
- Really it is just like the store we have, but only SH's can 'award' something from it can can't give anything to their own characters, players can't buy anything from it

Then we can fill it full of all sorts of things like summoned companions, or any type of temp companion (as characters with a convince skill can gain a temp companion with enough charming etc, as summoning isn't the only way for a temp companion)

Vehicles, and possibly even random goodies that might be found in the scene (can give this really generic names like Session Item - Buff Thing, or Temp Companion - BuddyPal)

savi0r117
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Interesting

I like where Zhe is going with it. It seems like a little work to set up but after words would help streamline things. I just thought it would be nice and I do see the concern, tis why they should be named something obvious or as you said be taken away afterwords.

Basically I'm sure you guys know what you're talking about and could figure something out, and if you like the idea you'd know what to do more than I would. Either way, cool ^_^

Bastlynn
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Insta awarding an item at the

Insta awarding an item at the time of casting is theoretically possible in code. The character profile currently in cache would need to be refreshed but that should be an automatic thing just about.

I was already thinking of making some tools available to SHs at the start/end of sessions - things that let them flag a character in session to lock flags set, that sort of thing. So I'm gonna jot this down in the ideas-to-example side of things. The big question is going to be UI. We're trying to jam a lot of tools in what ideally should be a very little bit of space - so good ideas on how to add that to the chatroom UI without wasting the space is very much welcome. :)

We could also use it to distribute instant permanent awards - things like "have a heal potion or three". Basically a pre-approved set of items so SHs don't have to go through extra steps just to create the basics.

Bastlynn
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Further thoughts - if this is

Further thoughts - if this is tied to a "in-session" / "out-of-session" button to flag characters mid play or not, then we could ALSO use that change in status to clean up temporary items added during the session. I'll have to think how to store that info along the way, but it does give us some good options to work with.

We almost need 2 workflows here - one for tracking character approval, one for tracking in-session / out-of-session. The upgraded workflow module does allow for multiple workflow use, so that may be where I go with this. That way we can use all the other module code to respond to workflow changes the same way as we do for other code.

Zxehenia
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The reason I mentioned the sh giving it to the character as opposed to automation, is that our temp companion rules do need some teakign

Like there should be a relationship between risk-reward - aka try summonign something at a much higher diff to get something a bit more beefy, so if it can account for that as well, and remove them as need be, then yar.

Anyways I will try and roll out the system stuff in those forums and what not.

As for ui the only ideas I have atm is a pop up, or a SH tab for the room (but that would also depend on how things are connect etc as I am not so sure of that.)

-side not, sav why you keep calling me Zhe? Missing an xe there, takes me a moment to realize you are talking about me XD

re: 'have a potion' - And yeah that was like the other idea

savi0r117
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UI

I could draw something up if you would like, I'd go in the test room and look at how things are already set up, then go from there.

Also Zxehenia, your character names are always unique and I think I typed Zhe once or twice and my head stuck on it, I'm sorry about that

Bastlynn
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Sketch away! It's always a

Sketch away! It's always a good skill to practice and it may be we end up thinking along the same lines which will just be good reinforcement for the idea. The tab idea sounds pretty decent, maybe moved to the other side of the display from the other pullout tabs to make it clear which one is for SHs? Since we're doing responsive designs here, Sav, you may need to brain storm version for mobile as well as the larger web display. Consider needs for scrolling and clicking, ideally minimal for both of those - basically "don't make the user think" is the ideal for designing UI/UX.

Zxehenia
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Hrm possibly, or maybe make a different color?

I figured with the tab it would also be easy to add more stuff in should it need to get bigger.

savi0r117
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Ok

So one let me state sorry for being a bit on responding.

Anyway what i was thinking was yes a temp item sort of deal. A way to flag the item so that it goes away after a session. In this case with acquired companions or tools I would think there would be some kind of list that the Sh could access. More over if it is a companion then for the player, we already have the small companion use section at the bottom. This doesn't show up when you don't have a companion already so unless when the page does it's own auto refresh every so often to update the "chat" log if that would appear as well that would be nice. Otherwise the player would have to manually refresh the page and it would appear, as i have tested.

More so, since it does seem you already have a preset of companions that can be summoned that would help cut down on the amount of stuff that needs to be made for this to work. You can copy those things into a list that the Sh has access to, can tick on for a player, and then when the player refreshes and they show up they can play with them as normal. Since for instance with Azura and his fox Reaper I can see reapers own skills when I roll for him, I assume that it would be able to do the same thing when the temp companion is added in.

To further expand on the temporary part, would it be possible to set them with a time limit? So that after so long they disappear from the player's inventory/companion list? So say 8 hours? I think that would cover all session that I have been too, and I can't imagine a session going longer than that.

I figure that would take care of the Sh not having to remove them later, they just tick it on for a certain player upon the summoning, with a preset list of companions to chose from so mights and skills are taken care of. I think I covered everything, and the UI wouldn't have to change on the player side, the only thing I don't know is how the Sh would interact with such lsits and tools of giving them to the player. Other than that yeah that is what I've got ^^;

Zxehenia
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I am meh on the idea of autorefreshing the whole page tbh. Not to mention it may do more harm then good - as players may end up loosing whole posts being one example. A hard refresh keeps the control in the players hands - so maybe just a notification to refresh? And the player can do so at their convenience.

And yes the ui you see with reaper is the standard companion ui. Just need a companion to activate it.

A time limit would not work out.
Often sessions run over, so if the companion expires too early that would screw over that player due to circumstances beyond their control. (this is often why in ruling we refer to time limits in rounds as opposed to hard time). Not to mention if the session ends early - as summoned companions only last a duration of the scene - for a session that ends when the session ends.
I have ran sessions that have past the 12 hour mark. Rare for sure, but they do happen.
Sure a SH could just assign it, but they may not know how long the scene may go.
There is also slow post sessions to consider as well, which do not follow the linear time flow so to speak and occur over a period of days rather then hours. (Which would be one loophole one could use in regards to the in session flag, however in slows the character is suppose to be locked anyways - so perhaps our standard rules and reports would apply and not need any extra work, unless it was also possible to flag things to a room? Not sure how complicated that would be.)

Bastlynn
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Forcing a whole page refresh

Forcing a whole page refresh shouldn't be necessary, there's definitely some issues there with potential loss of posted info and it's also difficult to trigger remotely. But when you make a post that gets a full refresh, and if they've summoned a critter the SH can easily mention "ok, it's been added for your character" in ruling to signal to the player to refresh their screen to pick up the change - and that should work really well for us.

We could also ask the SH to set the auto-timeout for that item if it's a slow vs fast - default at 8hrs but allow the SH to expand that for weeks if needed for slows, which should give us that flexibility if we need it. Realistically if the session Does run over their eyeballed time, they can always re-issue or extend the item loan. And if it runs under, we can make sure they have a button to immediately expire the item at the end of the session as well.

I think trying to support the in-session flags by the room to account for fast/slow sessions might be over complicating this first pass of code though. So I want to bump that complication a little further down the road until we've got the basic "give a temp item out" code working first? We may need to bridge that gap right now with SH training - thankfully our current set of SHs can smell bullshittery. :P

Zxehenia
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My concern with that is if the SH has a ton of stuff going on, it can become very easy to overlook the need to extend a temp item such as that.
Even more so if part of this it help ease the workload during sessions and streamlining.

Maybe instead of the time limit - just have the end item button right up front, since it will be in for early ends?

savi0r117
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Touche

So if i understand correctly, either use a time limit with a general rule of thumb being that a session doesn't run more than 8 hours, and a off switch/extension button if necessary. Room locks for slows would take more work to actually make work so I could understand leaving that be for now, and picking it up in the future as that seems like a good idea and would eliminate the ability to use it elsewhere, therefor getting rid of the potential for exploitation.

if i missed anything my bad, but that seems like a good plan to me. Just make a list of premades with different set ups or something to use, or create one on the spot and assign it. I'm not completely awre of how that works or how the entirety of the system works even. This was all just a thought so if it is too much trouble I'm sorry about that.

Zxehenia
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We will be making a list of premades, its already been on the to do list for system.
Just atm some of them exist as NPCs as opposed to an item to give.